Cultural importance.

[Danielle Loves Kurt]

It has been 10 years since the untimely death of Kurt Cobain. In that small amount of time numerous theories have emerged surrounding the death of the last great American songwriter as some proclaim him. Many of these theories consist of ideas that his wife, Courtney Love was somehow responisble for her husbands death. These theories started when Tom Grant went to the press after being hired as a private detective for Courtney Love to find Kurt Cobain prior to his body being found. When the press didn't buy into what they believed was an elaborate hoaxe Tom Grant used the accessibility of the internet to post his thoughts and 'evidence' to try an produce his desired outcome.

I am not going to argue whether or not Kurt Cobain was murdered my fears surround this idea is far more cultural. I fear these theories will dwarf Kurts songwriting genius into a sick and squallid little joke if these theories continue. Culturally, Elvis has been reduced to a laughing stock. And theories like Kurt Cobain still being alive are as silly as the ones surrounding Elvis' death. I don't want that fate to come in contact with the legacy of Kurt Cobain. This is a cultural arguement that is about Kurt Cobains music being lost due to becoming a laughing stock. I believe if these theories continue, as I do believe they are a hoax that has spun widely out of control will advetually reduce the genius of Kurt Cobain to nothing. Mainly because people won't remeber the great music only the silly accusations.

[lovestinksyeahyeah]

okay yes there are alot of theories that are terrible and stupid but the fact of the matter is that there is REAL evidence pointing towards kurt being murdered. i don't know if it was courtney or not but this isn't a conspiracy. it has evidence. he's a real detective. he's not looking for money. the only person doing that right now is courtney love. i do not think this murder theory is taking the spotlight away from kurt or his music at all. i do not see how it couldn't help it. i just think its sick that some people see it as fitting that he committed suicide. its like they see it as a good ending to the story of his life because after all he was a rockstar doomed from the beginning right? that's all crap. do you not realize how many kids went out and did the same thing they because they thought thats what kurt wanted. they thought it was cool. they didn't know better. do you think he wanted that? he loved his fans. he was signing autographs up until the day he went missing. its like the fact that everyone believes it was suicide leaves a black cloud hanging over him asking what was really wrong. and why did he do it? so why did he danielle. don't tell me it was because of his lyrics thats a lousy excuse. people write what they want not always how they feel. you know reading your post makes me angry but i'm not always an angry person. songs on made on the spur of the moment. and i think many of us here have said before he , kurt, himself had said his lyrics were full of contradictions. he didn't do it because of courtney. he may have been afraid of her but he was about to divorce her and i highly doubt he would want frances with her. which brings me to another point. kurt loved frances more than ever so why would he do a thing like that to her? the suicide theory may be just as bad as the others. because now it seems there's more evidence pointing against it. everyone around him said he was seen as happy when they saw him before his death. as far as i see it kurt is just an average human being like us so why should his case be treated differently? its not the fact that i can't get over that he's gone its the fact that if this was a murder he deserves respect and dignity.

[Andrea]

Danielle,

To say that Elvis's musical legacy has been reduced culturally to a joke underlines the state of your age and lack of perspective about music history. I think that you are greatly mistaken if you think that Elvis has been reduced to a laughing stock. I'm sure that many, many people would strongly disagree with your statement. After all, Elvis is still very much one of the greats. His impact on music was enormous and there are few artists today who have attained such heights, influence, and more important such longevity of career.

Kurt Cobain has deservedly attained a certain level within music history and I don't think that position is going to be undermined by theories concerning his death. His musical ability and the way that he died are two totally distinct subjects. Are Marilyn Monroe's achievements as an actress and her contribution to American cinematic history and her powerful visual image, eclipsed by her mysterious death? No. It's all part of her legend. Most people today remember (and copy, often actresses and singers) her striking visual image and sensual mannerisms. Her influence has little to do with the way that she died.

The murder theory isn't going to go away as much as people choose to deny it credence. Those who have looked at the evidence are consumed by wanting to know the truth about how he died. The only way that the murder theory will go away is if the SPD re-open the case and reach a conclusive verdict that has been arrived at by a thorough investigation. If anything the murder theory will gain momentum as the years go by.

I really don't think that the murder theory is damaging to Kurt's musical legacy and rememberance at all. If anything it's liable to attract more fans who will learn of Kurt's music through his untimely death and the mysterious manner with which he died. Furthermore it might redress Cobain's image of being self-destructive, depressive and suicidal. Most of the images (and interview footage) of Cobain that I have seen show him smiling or goofy around... Pre-Courtney, his earlier girlfriend Tracy Mirander stated that Kurt had a very good sense of humour although it might of been sardonic and loved to play practical jokes. If I ever meet Mirander, I would do my hardest to convince her to release a memoir on the Kurt that she knew. I'm sure that it would be an interesting document. What prevents her from doing so, is probably, I assume, Courtney Love. Hope this has given you a few thoughts. Axxx

[HippieChild]

Culturally, Elvis has been reduced to a laughing stock. And theories like Kurt Cobain still being alive are as silly as the ones surrounding Elvis' death. I don't want that fate to come in contact with the legacy of Kurt Cobain.

Whoa.

I don't even know how to begin to address the ignorance of that statement. Elvis is a lot of things, but he is NO JOKE. He changed the face of rock-and-roll forever and has been a major influence on countless of musicians not only in rock-and-roll but in soul and rythme-and-blues. If not for Elvis, bands like the Beatles may have never existed, another group that brought rock-and-roll into a new direction. Have you ever seen the tape of Elvis jamming with the beatles? It is a sight to behold; these five men relaxing and jamming and creating some of the most incredible music I've ever listened to. A joke? You have got to be kidding!

I agree 100% with Andrea; the only way the murder theory is going to go away is if the case is reopened. As the years pass the theory is going to become more and more of a reality, much in the same way as the "conspiracy theory" of the assassination of JFK, and until everything is studied and a proper investigation done, there is always going to be the stench of controversy and suspicion surrounding Courtney Love.

I'm a practical person and can usually spot a hoax a mile away. I've studied and researched this case since the day I stumbled onto Tom Grants web-site and have drawn my own conclusion and this was not a conclusion I reached lightly or impulsively. Common sense and practicality tell me that something is not right about this case and it's investigation was a rush to judgement and a hasty conclusion. I cannot close my eyes and dismiss the obvious or waive it away and dismiss it as a hoax because commen sense says there's more to be found here. If Kurt did not commit suicide his name needs to be cleared so Frances knows her daddy didn't leave her, could never leave her. As LSYY pointed out, copycat suicides ran rampant and it could have been avoided if the truth had come out in the very beginning. Covering up the truth only leads to further tragedy and heart break. Just ask the mother of Lyle Senac, who "jokingly" emulated Kurt's suicide and accidentally killed himself by propping a 12-gauge shotgun of the floor; then kneeling with his mouth over the barrel he said "Look! I'm just like Kurt Cobain!" before the gun went off. Or Bobby Steele's mother, whose son put on the Nirvana song "Endless, Nameless" on the stereo and wrote a letter saying "I just can't live anymore. If you just think alot you just stop knowing that life has a purpose...I am not intoxicated or high....I just feel bad. It's been the most painful 84 days in my life." You see, 84 days earlier Bobby had learned that his hero, Kurt Cobain, committed suicide. In a parady of Kurt's last words "it's better to burn out than fade away" Bobby wrote "It's better to not spark at all. Rob Steele." He then signed the note, took a polaroid of himself with a Kurt Cobain picture in the background, positioned himself so his body would land in the same position as Kurts, picked up the gun and positioned the muzzle in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

HOAX? The lives of these two boys, and 66 others documented may have been spared this fate if a thorough investigation had been done before reaching a hasty conclusion of suicide. Kurt still would be dead, but if the verdict had been murder instead of suicide a lot of kids may still be alive. If there is the possibility this was a murder, no matter how remote, it deserves to be investigated.

As for Kurt being a "culteral joke" that remark doesn't warrant a response for it's ignorance alone. However, I will say this; musically Kurt left his mark and opened up a new door to the music industry. His genius has no baring on his death and his music will never be thought of as a joke, anymore than Elvis'. Kurt was a talented man with a rare gift, a gift he chose to share with the world during his short life, and people who love his music will remember that and be thankful for his wonderful contributions to music. There is nothing funny about that.

A joke???
Puh-lease!

[lovestinksyeahyeah]

those stories about those teens were in "love & death". they made me so sad because as you're reading about the case they are put in between chapters throughout the whole book. it made me realize how important kurt was to kids my age. he was a comfort to them. danielle you are nuts for saying that the murder theory is affecting the music. there was an 11 year old from quebec who hung himself leaving a note saying, "did it for kurt". his mother pleaded for children not to the listen to the "negative music of nirvana". if anything the suicide pushes people away from the music for fear. when really there is nothing wrong with it at all. his lyrics were what people were feeling in their lives everyday. his music wasn't screaming go commits suicide. these kids did it because they felt the only person that understood them was gone.

[itslikeatradeoff]

Hey Danielle how about you respond to these people instead of ignoring them.

[Danielle Loves Kurt]

The only reason I didn't respond is because I wasen't on the site.

Fair enough, Elvis as a musician isn't a laughing stock but what's the first thing people think when they hear the name Elvis, they most likely think of his famous, shady death not music he made. I don't want to turn the TV on one day and see pyschics going through the old Cobain home. That will make me sick.
How many Elvis impresionators do you see, pyschics trying to alk to Elvis and all that junk. That sort of thing dwarfed culture. With these theories I give it 15 years and that will happen to Kurt.

Secondly, Love stinks if a teenager kills themselves than that is not a direct result from Kurt Cobains death That's bad parenting and parenting that is destructive. I can't believe people can sprout that crap. If people are dumb enough to think this what Kurt wants so I'm going to go kill myself their parents have raise incredibly impressional children and if they hadn't been 'led astray' [for want of a better term] by Kurt than it would've been some other famous person. I feel sorry for them but it's hard to understand why you'd do that.

[Danielle Loves Kurt]

Look I feel sorry for those kids but I hate how people try and blame famous people for the problems their children have. I think that's a cop out by the parents.

[lovestinksyeahyeah]

okay first of all these stories had notes linked to kurt. i'm not blaming them on anyone. that's not bad parenting. its what happens when someone you love dies. they didn't know how to deal with it so they did what they thought he did. they followed his every move. the point i'm trying to get across is that this isn't what kurt would have wanted. he was murdered and if kids would have know this some of these deaths could have been prevented. these were teenagers. teenagers are impressionable. they're at a point in their lives were they're trying to figure things out. you can't just blame the parents. yeah it was their choice but it might've been different if they would've known what really happened.

[HippieChild]

Look I feel sorry for those kids but I hate how people try and blame famous people for the problems their children have. I think that's a cop out by the parents.

That is the most cold-hearted response you've ever given as well as the most ignorant.

First of all, many kids who try to kill themselves come from excellent homes with wonderful, caring parents who try to keep the door of communication open. I know this because I've worked with kids like that before. When children reach a certain age and their bodies start to change and they start seeing things a lot differently than they did as children, they become scared and confused. When a man like Kurt Cobain comes along, a musical genius and someone to look up to, they start to admire him and emmulate him. When he died under what appeared to be a "suicide" a lot of kids were in despair because the man they put on a pedastal took the "easy way" out. Losing someone you love, even if it's a celebrity, can be very traumatizing to a young mind and soon they start to think that must be "the way to go." and in order to be like their hero, they copy what he did. It had nothing to do with bad parenting or a bad enviroment, it's about being young, scared and impressionable.

Blaming the parents for this is the cop-out. Children grow up and become like real people; it's funny how that works. They have their own feelings, draw their own conclusions and think their own thoughts. As parents we can't tell them how to think or what to feel; all we can do is hope that we've taught them enough so they make the right decisions but sometimes they DON'T make the right decision and tragedy results, and in the case of these young kids, they made the wrong choice because they thought it was "cool to be like Kurt." If Courtney is the one who is responsible for Kurt's death, she is responsible for the deaths of these children as well; she has blood on her hands.

I just pray to God that when you have kids your not faced with a tragedy like this. If so, you may find the finger of blame pointed at you, irregardless of the real situation. Your thinking is way harsh. You better hope it doesn't double back on you and bite you in the ass later on in life.

And as for Elvis being a "joke" because of his "shady death" you don't know what your talking about and your proving yourself to be more and more ignorant. I don't know about your country but here in America we don't consider his death a joke; we consider it a tragedy because he had so much more life to live and a daughter he never got to see grow up. Your getting awfully presumptious about what WE think. In America Elvis is the crown King of Rock-n-Roll and a true legend. How dare you insinuate otherwise. You insult me, Danielle, and other americans as well. You really do.

[Danielle Loves Kurt]

I don't really care if I'm insulting Americans, those people overwelmingly support bombing the hell out of innocent people and don't throw that nationalistic nuts on me.

In my opinion depression is genetic, it's controlled by the chemicals you inheriet and depression can sometimes to lead to suicde in some occasions. I do however think you can't blame a rock performer for the suicide of your teenager. You might think I'm being cold hearted but I think this legal reasons. If you could sprout those comments at any celebrity and sue them then that goes against the Bill of rights with the idea of being inpublic without being open to ridicule. To me claiming Kurt Cobain is the sole reason why those kids killed themselves is the same as saying the kids that did the Columbine school massacre did it only because Marilyn Manson told them too. I think that's wrong because those actions are inspired and cultivated by surroundings. It's about liberal gun laws that allow it to happen, it'a about parents who don't teach their children to not be violent. OK you've worked with kids who have depression from Middle class American homes and puberty can send them into depression but the chemicals have to be there [as proven by doctors] and the environment has to right for it either school, family or friends not a record of your favourite idol. I'm sorry but that's just creating a scapegoat.

[DirtGrrl]

I am not quite sure if I am understanding you correctly, Danielle.

Some of what you are saying makes sense to me, but some of it just doesn't. I think that maybe you are talking about the possibility of Kurt becoming overrated in a way, in a sense that he will become more famous for his death than his music? If this is the case, I must say that has already happened. But the fact is, it hasn't happened in the real fans' mind, the people who respect and admire Kurt for his music and talent.

I do see alot of 13 year olds going on about how Courtney killed Kurt just because they say Kurt and Courtney and apparently that's evidence enough for them. I do see them wearing Nirvana shirts without ever having heard a single song not listed on Nevermind. I do see them printing out Kurt's suicide note and plastering it all over their walls and walking around almost waving it in the air.

Off course this bothers me. But I just can't allow it to bother me, because I know that I, and other people who like Nirvana, will always remember Kurt for his talent, and not his death.

As far as the Elvis being a joke thing, I really am not in a place to comment, I really don't know that much about the whole Elvis thing, and I think that the fact that I am not American has alot to do with it.

[Danielle Loves Kurt]

I am not making fun of Elvis in the history of rock and roll. What I am saying is about people who have taken this to extremes by focusing on the craziness of his life and this is more important to wider society than his music. I respect Elvis for his music and contribution to music but I am concerned that Kurt will be remembered more for his crazy life and indeed the murder theory than for his music.

Dirtgirl, you're so f**ken cool. I know that Kurts death is now what he is remembered for. And that annoys me.
My issue is that I don't want Kurt's old home to become a tourist attraction and this already taken place. I am not American either which is possibly the reason why I can't stand the idea of Kurt Cobain becoming a tourist attraction.

[DirtGrrl]

Well I think Americans don't want Kurt to become a tourist attraction either.. But hey, out of curiosity, where are you from?

[HippieChild]

don't really care if I'm insulting Americans, those people overwelmingly support bombing the hell out of innocent people and don't throw that nationalistic nuts on me.

Well aren't we high and mighty. Tell me then, little girl, why is AUSTRALIA out there fighting too? Your country is fighting right along with ours, so get off your high-horse; your no better than we are.

FYI I don't support bombing the hell out of innocent people; neither did I support the horror Sudam Hussein was inflicting on his people. People were being tortured and killed for no reason and people were being oppressed by terror and violence. Do I like what's going on now? NO. Do I like what Bush is doing? Definately not. However, he is MY president and I will support him and wipe the floor with anyone arrogant enough to make a statement as ignorant as yours. If you don't want this to become a "nationalistic" thing then keep your big mouth shut because you don't know what the hell your talking about. Another thing, don't bad-mouth my president to me or any other american on this board ever again. I could make a few observations about Howard but I won't do it because it's not my country nor is it my place; extend the same courtesy or I will seriously go after you, as will other americans who resent your arrogant, oh-so-self-righteous attitude that only a pubeless, uninformed juvenile like yourself can have. Just shut the f*uck up.

OK you've worked with kids who have depression from Middle class American homes and puberty can send them into depression but the chemicals have to be there [as proven by doctors] and the environment has to right for it either school, family or friends not a record of your favourite idol. I'm sorry but that's just creating a scapegoat.

As for your chemicals theory, yes body chemistry does have a lot to do with it and finding the right kind of medication can take a long time. Only recently it's been discovered that the drug Paxil, when given to kids, can cause violence, suicidal tendancies and in some cases death. Unfortunately this study just came to recent light and there have already been hundreds of deaths recorded due to this horrible drug. To just give a child pills is wrong; you need to study this child, find out where he's at, see if he fits a certain criteria and THEN administer the proper medication. When you just give a child drugs your playing with fire. Chemical depression can be worked through with regular therapy too; as long as a child can talk about his feelings and put them in proper perspective, sometimes drugs aren't necessary because in the end he/she finds his own way. That's not always the case but you are no authority on anti-depressents and mood stabilizers and I find it arrogant that you would presume to say what's wrong with these kids. Educate yourself before opening your uniformed little mouth.

You've gone from being nice, to irritating to downright arrogant and it's very unattractive. Bash america on your own time but here, if you say one more word about my country or my president I will let you have it full force. I don't lose my temper easily but you have successfully pushed every single button I have and I'm ready to tear you apart.