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Post by HippieChild on Nov 28, 2004 10:41:06 GMT -5
Repost it, Danielle. I remember (vaguely) reading it but senility is creeping in. (actually, I like it. It's comfortable )
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Post by lovestinksyeahyeah on Nov 28, 2004 15:12:01 GMT -5
here's what she's talking about hippiechild.
I AM ONLY OFFERING THIS AS A DEBATE TOOL.
The amount of herion in Kurts system tends to be a huge draw card for conspircy theorists who believe Kurt was murdered. I offer this as a different wa y of seeing it. You may not agree but stay open minded here. Kurts addiction is known to be huge [don't switch off just yet] . Hole band mate Carolyn Rue when speaking of the level of Kurt Heroin use the said "Kurt talked about taking drugs like it was so f**king natural" she continued "But it wasn't". Even in drug circles Kurt Drug use was high. Kurts best friend Dylan Carlson also claims that "He defiantly used a lot of dope" he continued "I wanted to get high and still be able to something, but he wanted to do so much he couldn't do anything. He always wanted to do more than he needed to do . So maybe Kurt was testing the limits before he committed suicide. It seemed to be one of the most important things in his life so it seems natural to go out on a huge dose of it. People need to remeber here that regards less of how much Kurt injected it would need 30 seconds to 1 minute to circulate in his blood stream. But many say that the assassin injected Kurt and if Kurt was indeed murdered than this would make sense in theory. However, It defies logic that he would sit there and allow one person to inject him with a triple overdose level. In reality, he would have fought for his life. So, he would have to be restrained, how many people would it take to restrain him enough to inject him with heroin? The circle grows even larger, maybe too large for someone like Courtney to pull it off and get away with it. Or even any man if someone is fighting for his life.
Now toxicologists have said that the level in Kurts system would kiill even a huge addict. But my god a toxicologist said it so must be true. Excuse me but didn't scientists also believe that the world was flat as well until they were proved wroug.
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Post by lovestinksyeahyeah on Nov 28, 2004 15:13:40 GMT -5
oh that stupid article on how kurt was such a huge addict that he could withstand the huge level. so danielle you're saying you don't believe highly educated scientists who know more in this area than you and courtney? none of that post you said really makes sense. the people who said kurt did alot of dope are just were druggies themselves at the time. that's the only evidence you can find to make you think its a suicide?
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Post by HippieChild on Nov 28, 2004 15:32:44 GMT -5
Thanks Lovestinksyeahyeah. Okay Danielle, it sounds logical but your forgetting one thing; there was a large level of valium in his system too. If he was drugged with valium before he was shot up, he wouldn't have been able to put up a fight. Also, remember, he was plagued by chronic stomach pains which is why he did heroin in the first place, because the narcotic effect killed the pain. He may have been "testing the levels" as you say not because of suicidal tendancies but because of the level of pain. Also, once he was diagnosed and treated properly for the pain in his stomach his whole outlook on life changed and he no longer needed the heroin. As Dylan put it, he stopped retreating into his dark side and was happier than he'd been in his whole life. About the levels of heroin, even if he'd injected one arm, cleaned up a bit then injected in the other, he still would have had to roll down his sleeves, button them, clean up the heroin kit and retrieve the gun and shoot himself, this would have taken more than 30 seconds to a minute; the level of heroin, which has been affirmed by people in the medical profession (read grants web page) would have incapacitated him immediately. there is no way in hell he could have done what he did with such a high level in his system. And he was clean; his friends, bandmates, all who were close to him on his last tour testified to this. He was clean, happy and sober, looking forward to the future. He even made reference to his future grandchildren at a concert and made plans with his grandfather to go fishing in a few weeks. Does this sound like a man who is suicidal? Dylan himself stated that "smack was just a small part of his life." Again, let me state that a person who OD's on smack dies instantly, sometimes without even pulling the needle out of his arm, and vomits and defecates all over himself. There was nothing like that indicated on Kurt. The scene was neat and tidy. It makes no sense whatsoever. The amount of heroin alone would have killed him. There is no way, even if he were a hardcore junkie, he could have pulled that trigger or has there ever been a case like it, with the levels of heroin as high as it's been, where the person could pull down his sleeves, clean up and shoot himself. It's medically impossible. As I pointed out earlier, Robert Pastorelli died of a heroin OD with a similar level of heroin in his system and the needle never made it out of his arm, not to mention the fact there was vomit and feces everywhere. Maybe I would have believed the "testing the waters" theory if he hadn't found a cure for his stomach pains, because he himself admitted he wanted to end it all because the pain was so bad, but after he was cured, he wanted to live and be with his beautiful daughter. He never would have left her. Furthermore, if you read the "suicide" note, it doesn't read like a note, it reads like a farewell to his fans until the last 4 lines, which are written in a different hand. A copy of this note can be found at www.angelfire.com/ga/insidesorce/note.html and the difference in writing is obvious. There is no doubt in my mind. Kurt was murdered. I don't know for sure who did it, but he was definately murdered.
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Post by lovestinksyeahyeah on Nov 28, 2004 16:52:20 GMT -5
exactly plus there were no fingerprints on the gun and also the placement of the gun was supposedly fit perfectly between his legs and feet. and courtney who described the seen as horrid with blood everywhere was lying because there was actually very little blood at all. and like hippiechild said about the valium there was a can of rootbeer next to kurt that should have been tested as evidence that tom grant noticed. which is strange because the "suicide attempt" courtney complained about from Rome was similar to this because grant said he thought courtney could have slipped many of her pills she was taking at the time into the champagne kurt was drinking which caused a reaction with his medication he was taking for bronchitis. i thought it was strange then that if rome was a suicide attempt courtney never said anything about it or kurt. kurt might have said something if it was a suicide attempt i'd think but he didn't because it wasn't. he believed it was a reaction with painkillers and alcohol like the doctor said. he was clueless about what even happened. i think rome might have been a first attempt at murder because those drugs in his system were courtney's. plus when she found kurt lying on the floor in their hotel room she waited a couple hours before calling an ambulance. she said they had a very relaxing night before and were in good spirits but when kurt was lying in bed in the hospital he wrote on a sheet of paper to courtney "f**k you". and what was later revealed was that kurt had told her in an argument he was going to leave her in rome. in a later interview she said, "If he thinks he can get away from me that easily, he can forget it. I'll follow him through hell." she also said later, " He was dead......legally dead, he was in a coma for 20 hours...on life support. They thought he was never going to come out of it." tom grant believes she thought kurt was dead when she dispatched for an ambulance plus that is why she waited so long to call one. well that's all i have to say for now. i found all of those quotes on justiceforkurt.com if you guys want to check it out.
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Danielle Loves Kurt
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Post by Danielle Loves Kurt on Nov 28, 2004 18:33:27 GMT -5
lovestinks wrote that's the only evidence you can find to make you think its a suicide?
No album after album of Nirvana lyrics tells me that too.
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Post by lovestinksyeahyeah on Nov 28, 2004 19:35:29 GMT -5
you're judging him by the lyrics he wrote? please, kurt said that his lyrics were full of contradictions and were very sarcastic.
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Post by HippieChild on Nov 29, 2004 12:16:12 GMT -5
Kurt stated that his lyrics were as serious as a joke could be. He was being sarcastic. He had a very strange sense of humor and it showed in his lyrics which were full of irony and sarcasm. He didn't have a death wish, he wanted to live. In regards to the Rome Incident Lovestinks was talking about; he was found lying face down, fully dressed as though, with $1000.00 clutched in his hand looking as if he were getting ready to leave. He also left her a note saying he was going to divorce Courtney and he was just going to leave; to disappear. He didn't want to leave this life, he wanted to leave Courtney. Why would he take all of his and Courtney's money, get dressed, get ready to leave, and then OD? Furthermore, Kurt, Courtney, the doctor in Rome and the people at the hotel all stated that it wasn't a suicide attempt, it was an accident. Courtney didn't start to refer to it as a suicide attempt until after Kurt's death. Before that, she stated that it wasn't a big deal, it was just a little tiff between her and Kurt. After Kurt's death Courtney passed around a picture of Kurt posing with a toy gun in his mouth; a cropped picture that made it look like he was suicidal. In actuality he was joking around during a photo session and the picture actually included Dave and Krist as well. The photographer admitted that he'd asked Kurt to pose that way as a joke and Kurt, thinking it was funny, obliged. But Courtney had the picture cropped and passed it around as "proof" of Kurt's suicidal tendancies. Pretty sick, if you asked me. She's so determined to promote Kurt as a suicidal junkie that she'll resort to anything. She always referred his death as Kurt "with his f**kin' head blown off" when in reality his head was intact, as the bullet was lodged in the roof of his mouth, and the only blood there was a small amount that was trickling out of his ear, yet she tries to make it as gory as possible. Another thing she does that sickens me is simulate Kurt's death by putting a finger to her mouth as if it were a gun and screaming "Kurt! Kurt!" That is beyond bad taste; it's disgusting. Nobody can convince me she does that because she is mourning him; she does it because it "sells." If my husband were to die that way, the last thing I would ever do would simulate his death and leave horrific images for his daughters to live with, yet that is what she is doing to Frances. That's abuse in my book; mental cruelty. You need to put the pieces together, Danielle. Three times the lethal dosage, the cleaned up room where he died, El Duce who passed the lie detector test with the highest score possible, her despicable behavior before and after Kurt was found, using his lyrics and a cropped picture as "proof," it all adds up to a great deal of suspicion. Also the Rome incident where she claims to have found him at 4am yet the ambulance wasn't called until 6:30. Why? Was she waiting until she was sure he was dead? And if you look at the pictures from the Rome incident, what's with the fresh lipstick and make-up job? Courtney never misses a photo op, it seems. If my husband were dying I wouldn't give a s-hit what my make-up looked like, but hers was picture perfect and I doubt she wakes up looking that way. Very suspicious. If she wakes up every morning with her makeup intact and perfect, then I'm a natural blond. Just think about it, Okay?
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Post by itslikeatradeoff on Nov 29, 2004 16:49:12 GMT -5
In his lyrics he may say " I" alot but Kurt has stated the majority of the time he is not talking about himself. He's putting himself in someone elses shoes. He says his life was "boring" so he didnt write about his, he wrote about other people's. Ex)Polly
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Danielle Loves Kurt
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Post by Danielle Loves Kurt on Nov 29, 2004 20:47:32 GMT -5
sarcasm has a huge amount of truth in it. And you can't write 3 studio albums of lyrics about hating yourself and not have the feeling you don't like your self. When I write lyrics there always personal and every songwriter is like that. The only reason Kurt said his lyrics were contradictions and sarcasm is because he hated always telling the media what the songs were about. He wanted people to work it out for themselves.
Hippie regarding the valium pills in his system that information was attached in the link I'll get it for you. And lovestinks I don't trust a scientists opinion all the time. They have got it wroug enough for me not to. A career putting horrible chemicals or whatever into animals doesn't impress me anyway.
Look at it this way. I read a book Killing time years ago now about Oj Simpson and the death of Nicoles brown It all outlined timeframes, different drug connections everything you could need. And last year it was proved incorrect and bogus. I think that will happen to all those books about Kurts death and the murder conspircy too.
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Danielle Loves Kurt
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Post by Danielle Loves Kurt on Nov 29, 2004 20:52:13 GMT -5
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Post by itslikeatradeoff on Nov 30, 2004 14:33:38 GMT -5
I think that will happen to all those books about Kurts death and the murder conspircy too. Only time can tell.
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Post by HippieChild on Dec 1, 2004 20:05:22 GMT -5
I can tell you right now, the murder theory is not going to be so easily dismissed. The information Tom Grant has acquired has been released very carefully; it's been released very slowly over the years and with each piece of information he releases he always has proof to back it up. His theory on the levels of heroin have been proven correct repeatedly and he has challenged medical authoritys to produce one other case in which the victim took the same amounts of heroin that Kurt took and was able to perform in the same time line that Kurt supposedly performed in before shooting himself. No other case has ever been found. Now he's released some very d**ning audios and Halperin and Wallace have heard a lot of those audios are down right frightening. She is quoted as saying to Grant "I will do whatever it takes to make you not thing that." when she discusses Grant's interview on the radio. It's pretty scary. This case is going to get bigger and bigger as Tom Grant gradually releases more information and the movie Halperin and Wallace just released in Canada is already starting a stir. When it hits the US it's going to open up a whole new can of worms. It's just getting started.
JMHO
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Danielle Loves Kurt
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Post by Danielle Loves Kurt on Dec 2, 2004 6:58:55 GMT -5
Tom Grant has released the information regarding Kurt's death slowly over the years so he can stay in the public eye and be 'famous'. He's a famesleeper.
The information in Killing time was well thought out and well written too. And it was false. People just love conspircy theories.
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Post by yea right on Dec 2, 2004 18:37:47 GMT -5
kurt is dead ...and the pregnant dog is to blame ... but then again....oh never mind...hes gone but his music lives on
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