Murder or Suicide?

[Vanessa]

Personally, I think that people who go around and all they can talk about it Kurt Cobain really need to get a life. I mean, sure, if someone asks me what I think about Kurt Cobain and his death I'll state my opinion but people who spend all their time trying to convince people on internet forums that Kurt was killled need a life. I like knowing what new evidence pops up in this "case" and I like reading about Nirvana and Kurt because it's plain to see that the music world would not be the same without their history but what is the point of arguing about something like this? I think Kurt Cobain was murdered and although there is a lot of evidence against Courtney in this situation who's to say that someone didn't just show up and kill him. Who really cares? Kurt is dead. It's a tragedy but sitting on your computer talking to teeny boopers trying to convince eachother that Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain is really pathetic. Instead of trying to blame someone because of coincidences, let's try to blame someone on biological facts. Kurt had a nutsload of herione in him - more than most addicts could take. He should have been dead before the gunshot. That's why I think he was murdered - not because I think Courtney wanted his money. I'm sure she did, but that's no reason to blame someone of murder.

[PigWomanCourtney]

I'm torn - I'd love to think he blew his brains out because he just couldn't stand her anymore but I think she knew that he was worth more to her dead than alive. She must have known he was gearing up to divorce her no good skanky hiefer ass.

[poof187]

1. The Heroin

First of all, if the heroin had been injected post gunshot by the "murderer", it would not have entered his bloodstream, since the blood stops flowing after you die. So we know the heroin was injected pre gunshot.

Arguably he should have died before the gunshot due to the large amount of heroin, but if he had, the medical examiners would have been able to tell that the gunshot was post mortum and that he actually died of the overdose. We know that the gunshot is what killed him.

So regardless of whether or not he was murdered, we know that he was alive from the point of injection until the point of gunshot. What we do not know is how long this period was. My personal opinion is that it was a very short amount of time, just long enough for him to numb himself and pull the trigger. If he had waited much longer, the heroin may very well have caused his death instead.

So the point here is that the amount of heroin in his system did NOT cause his death. It is not really relevant WHY it didn't, perhaps he had an insanely high tolerance. People focus too much on the one piece that doesn't make perfect sense, and end up introducing far more theories that don't make sense, without introducing any real explanation of the heroin at all.

What is relevant is that somebody else murdering him would not make it any more likely for him to have been able to survive the dosage. The fact is that he did survive the dosage, and that suggests neither that he killed himself nor that somebody else did.

2. The Divorce

Actually, it was Courtney who was contemplating leaving Kurt, and not the other way around.

Recalling back to early 1994 before Live Through This even came out, Courtney Love was not nearly as well known as she was in the forthcoming years. She was not quite as out of control and Kurt really had no reason to leave her at all. I think Kurt's death pushed her to become a little more reckless and the rumours of her involvement pushed the public to lash out at her. But all of this happened AFTER his death, so none of it would have been a factor in their personal relationship.

There is the factor that Courtney Love and her band Hole did become much more well known following Kurt's death, and some people have suggested that this was one goal in the "murder". It's no secret that Courtney wanted to be famous, but in reality this is actually one of the factors that lead Courtney to consider leaving Kurt.

Kurt never wanted to be famous, or an icon. He was just a quiet artist who wanted to make great music, and the world noticed. I think he would have been much more content, and possibly still alive today, had the explosion of Nirvana into the mainstream not have been so great.

But Courtney did want to explode into the public eye, and she was becoming more and more frustrated with Kurt and the fact that he wanted to retreat more and more from the public eye. Also, Courtney was making a valiant effort to clean herself up and get off the drugs. Kurt had no intentions of cleaning up, and this was also difficult for Courtney to deal with.

After Kurt's death, it was no surprise to me that she fell right back into her old ways. This also suggests that she did not kill him, because obviously his death tore her up so much that it drove her back into the drugs. If she had been a part of the "murder", it would likely not have affected her so and she would not have returned to the drugs.

3. Conclusion

Anybody who thinks that Kurt Cobain did not kill himself is either a complete idiot or simply in denial.

There is absolutely no physical evidence whatsoever of a "murder", and the whole basis for controversy is the inexplicably high levels of heroin in his system. That and the fact that people simply don't want to believe that an icon like Kurt Cobain would take his own life.

In all of the ridiculous theories flying around, not a single one has given any explanation for why he survived the overdose. And that means that all theories, those of murder and those of suicide, all suffer from the same minor flaw. Face it folks, some things are just a mystery. Everything else considered, suicide is the only theory that make sense.

Anybody who knows anything about Kurt Cobain knows that he was destined to kill himself. All his life he suffered from depression and uncontrollable stomach pains, and found heroin to be the only thing to help. But his drug problems were beginning to ruin his marriage, his introverted nature was taking its toll on his career, and the pain of life was simply too much to take. Only a month earlier he had overdosed in Rome, but was rushed to the hospital by Courtney.

If Courtney had wanted him dead, don't you think she would have just let him die there on his own without becoming involved in a murder scheme? Do you really believe that Courtney would have her own husband and the father of her 1 year old child murdered simply to further her own career? Is this really more believable than the simple fact that Kurt Cobain wanted to die?

He bought a shotgun before being forced into rehab by Courtney. He broke out of rehab and locked himself up above the garage where nobody found him for days. He took an overdose of heroin, perhaps itself an attempt at suicide. And finally he shot himself, to ensure that this time he did in fact die.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that his death was not of his own choosing.

[Vale]

HI.I don't wanna insult you. I RESPECT YOUR OPINIONS,but i just wanna know of what f**k do you accuse Courtney?to be survived?to be a better musican than men? i'd love to understand. i belive that most of people here a NIRVANA's fans and so am i,but i try to see what happened,kurt's suicide, kurt's life, courtney's life irrationally, and so you should do! mabye if C&K wouldn't never met, kurt would killed his self lots of years before.HE NEEDED HER TO LIVE.HE TOTALLY LOVE HER AND SO SHE DID. IT WAS TRUE LOVE. THEY WERE THE PERFECT PUNK COUPLE like Sid & Nancy. Kurt had serious problems. he needed to be saved! PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND. SORRY 4 MY ENGLISH, BUT I'M italian. Vale

[Vanessa]

I personally think that it is really stupid for either side to be backed up because no one on here really knows Kurt or Courtney. People can talk on things that they've heard or read... but everything that is thought of by a person is swung into their point of view. Just because somewhere written in a book it says that Kurt Cobain took Heroine to help his stomach pains does not mean its true. It's not like he knew that herione would stop his stomach pains when he took it for the first time. He didn't notice that until after he had his first fix... which means he was a... come on.. all together now... DRUG ADDICT! Kurt Cobain was a normal person. He wanted to be famous and as much as people want to believe it... i can't see him finding no happiness in the music industry. He was so highly praised that he could tell someone his nuts didn't stink and people would believe him. The point of this: what you read and hear are not always the truth. Whether it was murder or suicide (there are cases for both sides), Kurt is dead. May his musical legacy live on forever because he was that d**n good.

[red]

I don't think that kurt was murdered by courtney, just because, how would that help her?! She had Frances who was just 1yr old, i don't think she would haveb't wanted Frances to grow up without an father, no matter how drug fu*ked he was. If it wasn't for her, he would have commited suicuide long before.

[Blue]

Get with the facts:
1. Kurt and Courtney were divorcing. That's on the record. So Frances B would probably have grown up without one of them.

2. Kurt wasn't destined to die. It was after his death that Courtney Love started putting out all these suicide stories. Kurt was happy, man, he loved his daughter.

3. Money would have been enough motive for Courtney to kill Kurt. If you know anything about her psychopathic history, more than one person her knew her has said that she'd be very capable of killing her husband.

4. The stomach pains had been cured by that point. That's also on the record.

5. And who ever said that Courtney was valiantly getting off drugs, know nothing! Dealers have said on the record that they were suppling Kurt & Courtney with drugs right up to his death.

Kurt isn't around anymore to set the record straight. Every book you read about him now is put out with Courtney's control. Easy for her to make up all these 'suicide' attempts. The Rome incident was never a suicide attemp during Kurt's lifetime - it only became that after he had died and courtney told it that way. Why is she trying to re-write history if she has nothing to hide?

www.cobaincase.com

[rocket]

Me thinks red and blue are the same person. can we try green and orange next?

[lovestinksyeahyeah]

no i don't think they're the same because blue actually makes sense. and rocket your facts of why it was suicide are very wrong. 1. yes he was on heroin. but with amount you say it could've been enough just to numb him. sure then why do specialized physicians say even the worst heroin users couldn't sustain that much of the amount. you say it was to numb him before he shot himself but then how did the drug paraphenelia get put up so nicely at the scene. and why were there no finger prints on the gun? oh what did he wipe them off after he shot himself in the head? please. only courtney fans would believe that one. its not the heroin)which was strangely linked to kristen pfaff's death) that is what people are only focused on. although it is a big part in the case. its the fact that the heroin was enough that he wouldn't be able to pick up the gun let alone clean up the paraphenelia. oh and you say he survived the dosage but you do not know how long or if he was unconcious or other facts.
2. kurt was also wanting a divorce for your information. he was trying to remove her from his will. he had told her first about wanting to leave her in Rome strangely enough he almost died there on that stay in which courtney waited to come out and say was a desperate attempt of suicide after kurt died. which left many unanswered questions from her and mistrust for all those who loved kurt and never knew this was an attempt (which probably wasn't) and their regret for not trying to get him help.
CONCLUSION: if you believe this was a suicide you are in denial. i am not going to say complete idiot like rocket because you may not have heard about the murder theory you are an idiot though if therefore you don't believe it because you are a courtney love fan. Courtney did have a reason for kurt's death. she wanted the money, the fame, and the sympathy that came with his death. Nirvana was worth so much more than Hole would ever sum up. Courtney said it herself to tom grant that kurt was woth more dead and alive. I always question why she being the perfect wife she was portrayed to be never question his death. never once did she wonder how or why he died. she hired tom as a way for him to find kurt dead. then later said to him well thanks for finding him with no regret in those words. kurt was not as depressed as he is portrayed to be. he loved frances. she was his world. he was a much better parent than courtney could ever be. no one ever suspected him to be suicidal or depressed until courtney opened her big "lying" mouth. if courtney was so on love with him why did she later say she'd "wished i'd never married him". i'm sure he thinks the same thing too. and why would she quickly flock out to the any media related person she could find and tell every secret known of kurt. she also was so loving to him that she quickly went on a trip with old fling Billy Corgan whom she dumped after meeting kurt probably because she saw the potential of nirvana and money. she later told sources she wanted to have "sex" with Billy but he declined. well she sure is widow of the year. Courtney saw the potential of building up her career. it began to rise when she met kurt and quickly increased after his death. she is a horrible person and is perceived as stupid but obliously has more sick plans up her sleeve. she put kurt in a trap. she began with getting pregnant. she was once pregnant before with james moreland's child who she was married to at the time. she had an abortion because she was dabbling with drugs and was selfish enough to have it without jame's consent. he dearlt hates her for it because he wanted a child. why did courtney have an abortion? she was married. i mean what was the difference with this baby and frances? she used drugs for both pregnancies. the difference was the fathers. james meant nothing to her pocket book. she tied kurt down and locked him in a cell when she told him she was pregnant and it was his. she knew he was a good enough man to take responsibility. she also knew his love for children. frances is such a great kid. i feel so bad for her. i hope she grows up knowing how much her daddy loved her. unlike her mother. courtney has no responsibility. frances even said she wanted to live with kurt's mother (her grandma). courtney used his mother. she bought her fantastic things to shut her suspicions up. well too bad for that relationship. courtney later punched his mother outside a court hearing for custody of frances claiming, "she had it coming to her". so much for that relationship. okay final conclusion. courtney is a horrible person who could never be compared to kurt and his talents. you have to be stupid to not see the inconsistencies in this case. since we are alluding to colors lately i will do the same. the facts are in black and white . Kurt did not take his own life. justice needs to be done. if courtney was so sure she wasn't involved why doesn't she take a polygraph test? what is she hiding? something obviously. there are to many lives being affected by this lie she has told. too many children and teens are wrongly being shown that kurt wanted suicide that its the cool way to go. its still going on in this world today. innocence is being lost as lost children begin to learn about the life of their hero Kurt Cobain. lives are being wasted. and there is still one who is alive and keeping a terrible secret. kurt was as much as a normal decent human being than any of us here. he was probably better than many of us too. therefore we must not let his life-changing music and reputation be put into a different perspective because of this lie. let's let justice be served.

[anne]

I think courtney love did it :) :D ;D :( >:( :o 8-) ::) :P :-[ :-X :-/ :-*TEXTTEXTTEXTTEXT

[Toigirl]

heres some info and EVIDENCE!!that courtney love murdered her husband and her childs father...


Here's just some of...
WHAT YOU WERE NEVER TOLD:

COURTNEY LOVE WAS FACING A DIVORCE
Kurt was in the process of leaving Seattle and his wife Courtney, when he was found dead.
Courtney knew Kurt wanted out of the marriage. Just weeks prior to his death, she asked one of her attorneys to get the "meanest, most vicious divorce lawyer" she could find.

SOMEONE WAS USING KURT'S CREDIT CARD
One of Kurt's credit cards was missing when his body was discovered.
Someone was attempting to use the missing credit card after Cobain died, but the attempts stopped when his body was discovered.

COBAIN WAS IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE
The shotgun found at the scene was purchased BEFORE Cobain left for rehab in Los Angeles, NOT AFTER he fled the rehab as reported by misinformed media sources.
The shotgun was fully loaded with three shells. It was purchased and loaded for protection, not suicide.
The police claim there were no legible fingerprints on this shotgun!
The truth is, the shotgun wasn't even checked for fingerprints until May 6th, nearly one month after Cobain's body was found.

THERE WAS NO "SUICIDE" NOTE!!
The note found at the scene by the police was immediately labeled as a "suicide note." The police report states it was "apparently written by Cobain to his wife and daughter, explaining why he had killed himself."
But this note was not addressed to Kurt's wife and daughter and it says nothing about "killing himself!" This note was clearly written to Cobain's fans telling them he was quitting the music business. There was only a short footnote to Courtney and Frances and the handwriting contained in those lines has been questioned by several handwriting experts.

COURTNEY HAD ANOTHER NOTE SHE KEPT IN SECRET!
Courtney was in possession of a second note after Kurt's body was found! SHE DIDN'T TELL ANYONE about this second note until several months later when information about it slipped out during an interview with Rolling Stone Magazine.
The second note, the one that Courtney kept in secret, clearly defines the first note which was found at the scene of Cobain's death. The "second note" from Kurt plainly states he was leaving Courtney and he was leaving Seattle. He was NOT leaving the planet!

COBAIN WAS INJECTED WITH 3 TIMES A LETHAL DOSE OF HEROIN!!
Cobain's heroin, (morphine), blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter. This would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin, three times a lethal dose, even for a hardcore heroin addict! The drug Diazepam, was also found in Cobain's blood system.

THE OBVIOUS QUESTIONS:
1. If Cobain injected himself with a deliberate heroin overdose, why would he ALSO shoot himself in the head with a shotgun, leaving his baby daughter - the love of his life - with horrific visual images to remember him by? Why not just "go to sleep" on the overdose and never wake up?
2. IF Cobain injected three times a lethal dose of heroin, COULD he then pick up a shotgun and shoot himself? Wouldn't he have been immediately incapacitated?

Based on the heroin, (morphine), blood levels found in Cobain's body, preliminary research indicates Kurt Cobain would have been immediately incapacitated. He could not have picked up that shotgun. He could not have pulled that trigger!

IN ADDITION...
Cobain was not barricaded inside the room as reported by misinformed media sources.
The stool which was supposedly wedged" against the door was actually just sitting in front of the two unlocked doors that only led out to a balcony.
Cobain did not leave his Driver’s License out for identification as reported by misinformed media sources.
The first police officer on the scene found Cobain's closed wallet, opened it to remove Kurt's driver's license, and displayed it in order to take a photograph.

THE FACT IS...
The police and the Medical Examiner have no forensic evidence that proves Cobain's death was a suicide. On the other hand, there's a substantial amount of evidence for murder.
The official verdict of "suicide" was simply a rush to judgement which eventually painted the authorities into a corner as reports of so-called "copy-cat" suicides began making the news.
As you examine this case carefully, you're going to discover there's much more to the events surrounding Cobain's death than what you've been told.

If the above evidence isnt enough for you ppl, then look here for the handwriting comparisons www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Cobain/Comparisons.html

Heres his whole 'suicide note' www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Cobain/Letter.html

Heres the text version of his suicide note www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Cobain/Text.html

And here is Kurts Death certificate www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/KurtCert.html

Finger prints analysis www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Cobain/Fingerprints.html

For more info visit
www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Cobain.html
www.cobaincase.com/

Rest in Peace Kurt Donald Cobain.
20th febuary 1967 - 4th May 1994

It just seems all of you Courtney Love fans cant seem to face it that your idle is a murderer!

[ObviousBlatantMurder1990]

Toigirl, I'm sure Kurt was murdered in April, not in May as you said. Just had to point that out. I don't even ever think of Kurt's death as a being a suicide as even a possibility, seeing as its just too obviously a murder! In general conversation, I forget that suicide theories even exist, like I did in my first line of this post. Lol, just noticed that 'Obvious, blatant MURDER!'

Oh, and Courtney hired some guy to kill Kurt. She wudnt get her hands dirty. She should be dead, pregnant dog!

[ObviousBlatantMurder1990]

lol, i love the way it changes the word B I T C H to FEMALE DOG! automatically lol. Even tho it means female dog, but still, its gr8!

[ObviousBlatantMurder1990]

i meant it changes B-I-T-C-H to PREGNANT DOG, instead of female dog. glad to get that off my chest!

[DirtGrrl]

Guest-poof187 said:

1. The Heroin
So regardless of whether or not he was murdered, we know that he was alive from the point of injection until the point of gunshot. What we do not know is how long this period was. My personal opinion is that it was a very short amount of time, just long enough for him to numb himself and pull the trigger. If he had waited much longer, the heroin may very well have caused his death instead.

But still, he did do alot of things before he shot himself, he cleaned up after himself and put his drug pharaphenilia (Can't spell that, don't blame the foreigner ) in a little box. That takes some time, maybe not alot of time, but time enough for him to die of the overdose before he could have shot himself.

I still believe that Kurt Cobain committed suicide, but I think that it is a bit weird how the scene was neat and tidy, after he took in three times the lethal dosage of heroin.

Maybe somebody cleaned up after him? Don't know. Alot of things may have happened, and I feel that the questions surrounding his death have to be answered, although I might personally feel that I have come to a conclusion, there still are a lot of unanswered questions. Who knows, maybe in a couple of years my conclusion will be different from the one I have today?

That is, if the case is reopened. Which I feel it must be.