Post by 123 on Sept 25, 2005 16:39:15 GMT -5
This interview is in the latest issue of Spin Magazine. Check out the quote in bold!
SPIN: It's been 11 years since LTT came out. Are you still bitter about rumors that you didnt write alot of the songs?
CLOVE: i dont give a nuts anymore. My number one thing to work on is not being reactive-but appropriateness doesn't come easily to me sometimes. One of the reasons i hate Dave (Grohl) so much is he went on Howard Stern and said,"I like "teenage sleeper" because i know she wrote it." That stupid motherf**ker. He knows exactly what i wrote, he knows exactly the input i had on (Nirvana's) third album. Kurt came by the studio to play with Hole more than he did with Nirvana because he liked us better. But hey, it wouldnt be Spin if i wasnt slagging somebody.
SPIN: When was the last time you listened to Live Through This?
CLOVE: I haven't. It was so easy to make that i get suprised by the effect it had on people. But, you know, all good rock is easy. The riffs just came, and they were fresh from chords that i'd learned from Billy Corgan and Kurt. I wrote "Doll Parts" in five minutes.
Spin: Do you think that it sitll resonates with people?
CLOVE: i cant even go to a club without running into a 19 - year - old who is really really affected by it. It pissees me off, it would piss anyone off to have their one record that affects people be ten years old. What about America's Sweetheart? It's not exactly whitechocolatespaceegg, f**kers.
SPIN: Spin gave it an A-
CLOVE: well, it had some problems. I was trying to be an international junkie making exile on main street and it didnt make exile on main street. i had people following me around, giving me all sorts of drugs all over the world, and i thought ,"Oh! the blues will come out." And they just sort of didnt.
SPIN: You say that you learned alor about music from Billy and Kurt, but with the exception of Eric Erlandson, you chose to play with women - was that a feminist decision?
CLOVE: I'll always prefer to play with woman and hang out with women, and i'll always be a feminist. But let me tell you something: Gloria Steinem never helped me out, Larry Flynt did.
SPIN: You used to have alot of animosity for the riot grrl movement. You even wrote a song, "Rock Star", making fun of it. What provoked that?
CLOVE: Look, you've got these highly intelligent, imperious girls, but who told them it was their undeniable American right not to be offended? Being offended is part of being in the real world. I'm offended every time i see George Bush in TV! And, frankly, it wasnt very good music.
SPIN: So we can assume you havent put aside your differences with former Bikini Kill leader Kathleen Hanna?
CLOVE: I still dont like her. She bugs me. Kathleen Hanna runs that ship (her relationship with Beastie Boy Adam Horovitz) in a way that is far more Yoko than i would be. I envision her being in a decked out loft with a little corner for a desk that looks like it belongs in a poor person's East Village apartment, with her battered womens stuff and her Ms. magazine and all her communication with leading feminists. I really liked Tobi Vail and Kathleen in the beginning, and then i just thought they were hypocrites.
SPIN: Was Celebrity Skin your attempt to distance yourself from punk music?
CLOVE: I wanted to prove that i had poppier chops. I did not want to make the widow record. I still havent made the widow record.
SPIN: Isnt Live Through This the widow record?
CLOVE: Its possible. I dont think if i had been (Belly frontwoman) Tanya Donnelly and put out live through this anybody would have cared. Kurt had this dumb suicidal ideation - thats why i called it that. I thought if we could live through this, we could live through anything.
SPIN: Does that mean his suicide came as a shock to you?
CLOVE: Well, after that incident in Rome, thank god nobody ever got a hold of this, but he left me a nasty note. I tried to have sex with him in the hospital afterward - why am i telling you this? Anyway, he was just gone. Gone. I know its ten years and your supposed to get over nuts. But it seems like some days it gets worse.
SPIN: How could things have gone differently?
CLOVE: There's this great Peter Townshend quote, and it goes something like "Rock n roll is a fire that is set by young bodies, and one day you wake up and smell your own flesh burning". You know, for instance, not being protected by people, to the point that i got taken off to Bellevue Hospital on a f**king gurney.
SPIN: Yeah, what happened?
CLOVE: First of all, i just need you to know that Marilyn Manson told my drummer that that was obviously staged. And i thought about it and im like, "Well, i did put on a Donna Karan slip dress. And there was definitely lipgloss." As the pictures were being taken, i knew they were disgusting, but i thought, in 20 years this is going to be an iconoclastic, hysterical moment in rock. i get taken off to Bellevue on a gurney? Come on, Lydia Lunch didnt even get that.
SPIN: Do you think the media have misrepresented you?
CLOVE: Something went wrong with my context last year - i think it might have been the, um, crack.
SPIN: (Laughs) I'm not sure i should be laughing.
CLOVE: No, its kind of funny. The word is so funny. Crack! I quit that, it was a bad phase. My problem was, you think they're talking about you on TV? well, they WERE talking about me on TV. You think your being followed? i WAS being followed. You think your phone's being tapped? my phone WAS being tapped. It was like crack - plus.
SPIN: How is Frances Bean doing?
CLOVE: The good news is that she is really popular. She isnt depressive and she is superhappy. She wrote down different bands whose albums she wanted, and was like AC/DC, Aerosmith, Nirvana. I was like ,"Frances!" She's a freak.
SPIN: You predicted that she would be tortured.
CLOVE: Hasnt happened yet. She's f**king normal. She was preverbal when her dad died. You know, i believe in my heart of hearts if kurt had stuck around six more months, the nuts would have faded and she would have been verbal. And you just cant off yourself when your kid talks.
SPIN: Whats it like to know you will always be associated with him?
CLOVE: The Kurt thing has burdened me so much. In a lot of ways i just wish i just had a baby with him and didnt marry him - i could've gone my own way. The biggest thing is to get through with me, whether we are doing an interview or hanging out - the first baptism is we're listening to the radio and a Nirvana song comes on and people always want to know, Do they turn it off? Do they pretend its not happening? I just start singing and get it over with. I like the songs. I like the song about my girl thingy; i like "Heart Shaped Box".
SPIN: Insome ways, you're actively involved in Kurts legacy. You got alot of nuts for the way you handled the nirvana box set.
CLOVE: people are always saying, "how dare she? how dare she?" Because he was my husband. Because the other guys want to re write history. Because they didnt even like him. I cant deal with it. They wanted to call the box set Sappy!
SPIN: Now that Nirvana and alot of the other bands that defined the early nineties are no longer around, where does that leave alternative music?
CLOVE: ten years ago it was a pretty even playing field in terms of rock n roll. But now Weezer, Velvet Revolver, me, we're like a niche market compared to whats on the charts, and whats on the charts is all black bought by all white. It freaks me out. I've been asked to write with Andre 3000. I could write with Eve right now. But what would i do? Teach them the three punk chords? I mean, i really like Eve. She kept putting out my cigarettes and making sure my bra wasnt showing at the Barbershop 2 premiere. If i was black and a rapper, I'd be Eve. I'm a bigger badass than 50 cent - and the only gun i've ever held in my hand was the one my husband shot himself with.
SPIN: So what do you listen to these days?
CLOVE: The only thing thats really riled me up in the last ten years has been White Stripes. Thats the one band that got me competitive, and thats good. Thats where i go, "Oh! f**k you! I'm going to make mincemeat out of you and hand you your ass." I told Neil Strauss,"I have a magical girl thingy, and its only for Jack." which was a stupid thing to do, because i had to go to Japan with him in first class and sit there for 18 hours turning green while he shunned me. I like this new music. I dont think Snow Patrol is going to sell jillions but I don't give a nuts. I can turn on the radio right now and be inspired. We went through ten years of the limp bizkit thing, and I don't know what to do. I have to be part of a community. I don't care if they're young or old, as long as they can wear crazy makeup and show their tits onstage. I'm 41, I cant show my tits onstage anymore. me on david lettermans desk? thats the last titty you get. the guy at wendys? that was the end of me and my tits.
SPIN: But exhibitionism has always been part of your appeal.
CLOVE: Sexual power was important to me then. its not as important to me now.
SPIN: Why is that?
CLOVE: Because im not very *friendly* personty and i dont have to prove myself so much. After Kurt died, for about five years, i would f**k anybody that was A list just to say i did. i care about myself a little bit more now.
SPIN: Would you say that you have embraced celebrity?
CLOVE: I love to hang with the f**king a listers, its fun. You gotta be able to change worlds. The rockers have been a little meaner to me in the last year, and the a listers havent been mean to me at all. I get invited to every party. You know, i am cool. i just am. i have to get back to believeing that and not have voices in my head - and im doing that sober, which is a little rough. But i want the toys, i like free gowns. I like going to elton johns house. Im pretty conflicted.
SPIN: You have had a career as both an actress and a musician. What's the difference?
CLOVE: Being a rock star is like being a cult leader - you really have to be in your own religion. Movie stars are supposed to be healthy. They're kept happy and nutritionally together. In rock stardom there is an absolute economic upside to self - destruction. What makes the most money for this business? Dead rock stars.
SPIN: You published Kurt's journals. Do you have any other plans to preserve his legacy?
CLOVE: No one will take Kurt's ashes, because they don't want the crowds. I was up in Seattle recently and drove by our old house on Lake Washington Boulevard. It's crazy. It looks like Pere-Lachaise; it looks like Jim Morrisons grave. Syringes, bottles, tree carvings. Thats what kids do. But i dont want kurt in a bank vault somewhere. I want to be able to say:"I've laid you out somewhere, and people can come."
--written by Phoebe Reilly
SPIN: It's been 11 years since LTT came out. Are you still bitter about rumors that you didnt write alot of the songs?
CLOVE: i dont give a nuts anymore. My number one thing to work on is not being reactive-but appropriateness doesn't come easily to me sometimes. One of the reasons i hate Dave (Grohl) so much is he went on Howard Stern and said,"I like "teenage sleeper" because i know she wrote it." That stupid motherf**ker. He knows exactly what i wrote, he knows exactly the input i had on (Nirvana's) third album. Kurt came by the studio to play with Hole more than he did with Nirvana because he liked us better. But hey, it wouldnt be Spin if i wasnt slagging somebody.
SPIN: When was the last time you listened to Live Through This?
CLOVE: I haven't. It was so easy to make that i get suprised by the effect it had on people. But, you know, all good rock is easy. The riffs just came, and they were fresh from chords that i'd learned from Billy Corgan and Kurt. I wrote "Doll Parts" in five minutes.
Spin: Do you think that it sitll resonates with people?
CLOVE: i cant even go to a club without running into a 19 - year - old who is really really affected by it. It pissees me off, it would piss anyone off to have their one record that affects people be ten years old. What about America's Sweetheart? It's not exactly whitechocolatespaceegg, f**kers.
SPIN: Spin gave it an A-
CLOVE: well, it had some problems. I was trying to be an international junkie making exile on main street and it didnt make exile on main street. i had people following me around, giving me all sorts of drugs all over the world, and i thought ,"Oh! the blues will come out." And they just sort of didnt.
SPIN: You say that you learned alor about music from Billy and Kurt, but with the exception of Eric Erlandson, you chose to play with women - was that a feminist decision?
CLOVE: I'll always prefer to play with woman and hang out with women, and i'll always be a feminist. But let me tell you something: Gloria Steinem never helped me out, Larry Flynt did.
SPIN: You used to have alot of animosity for the riot grrl movement. You even wrote a song, "Rock Star", making fun of it. What provoked that?
CLOVE: Look, you've got these highly intelligent, imperious girls, but who told them it was their undeniable American right not to be offended? Being offended is part of being in the real world. I'm offended every time i see George Bush in TV! And, frankly, it wasnt very good music.
SPIN: So we can assume you havent put aside your differences with former Bikini Kill leader Kathleen Hanna?
CLOVE: I still dont like her. She bugs me. Kathleen Hanna runs that ship (her relationship with Beastie Boy Adam Horovitz) in a way that is far more Yoko than i would be. I envision her being in a decked out loft with a little corner for a desk that looks like it belongs in a poor person's East Village apartment, with her battered womens stuff and her Ms. magazine and all her communication with leading feminists. I really liked Tobi Vail and Kathleen in the beginning, and then i just thought they were hypocrites.
SPIN: Was Celebrity Skin your attempt to distance yourself from punk music?
CLOVE: I wanted to prove that i had poppier chops. I did not want to make the widow record. I still havent made the widow record.
SPIN: Isnt Live Through This the widow record?
CLOVE: Its possible. I dont think if i had been (Belly frontwoman) Tanya Donnelly and put out live through this anybody would have cared. Kurt had this dumb suicidal ideation - thats why i called it that. I thought if we could live through this, we could live through anything.
SPIN: Does that mean his suicide came as a shock to you?
CLOVE: Well, after that incident in Rome, thank god nobody ever got a hold of this, but he left me a nasty note. I tried to have sex with him in the hospital afterward - why am i telling you this? Anyway, he was just gone. Gone. I know its ten years and your supposed to get over nuts. But it seems like some days it gets worse.
SPIN: How could things have gone differently?
CLOVE: There's this great Peter Townshend quote, and it goes something like "Rock n roll is a fire that is set by young bodies, and one day you wake up and smell your own flesh burning". You know, for instance, not being protected by people, to the point that i got taken off to Bellevue Hospital on a f**king gurney.
SPIN: Yeah, what happened?
CLOVE: First of all, i just need you to know that Marilyn Manson told my drummer that that was obviously staged. And i thought about it and im like, "Well, i did put on a Donna Karan slip dress. And there was definitely lipgloss." As the pictures were being taken, i knew they were disgusting, but i thought, in 20 years this is going to be an iconoclastic, hysterical moment in rock. i get taken off to Bellevue on a gurney? Come on, Lydia Lunch didnt even get that.
SPIN: Do you think the media have misrepresented you?
CLOVE: Something went wrong with my context last year - i think it might have been the, um, crack.
SPIN: (Laughs) I'm not sure i should be laughing.
CLOVE: No, its kind of funny. The word is so funny. Crack! I quit that, it was a bad phase. My problem was, you think they're talking about you on TV? well, they WERE talking about me on TV. You think your being followed? i WAS being followed. You think your phone's being tapped? my phone WAS being tapped. It was like crack - plus.
SPIN: How is Frances Bean doing?
CLOVE: The good news is that she is really popular. She isnt depressive and she is superhappy. She wrote down different bands whose albums she wanted, and was like AC/DC, Aerosmith, Nirvana. I was like ,"Frances!" She's a freak.
SPIN: You predicted that she would be tortured.
CLOVE: Hasnt happened yet. She's f**king normal. She was preverbal when her dad died. You know, i believe in my heart of hearts if kurt had stuck around six more months, the nuts would have faded and she would have been verbal. And you just cant off yourself when your kid talks.
SPIN: Whats it like to know you will always be associated with him?
CLOVE: The Kurt thing has burdened me so much. In a lot of ways i just wish i just had a baby with him and didnt marry him - i could've gone my own way. The biggest thing is to get through with me, whether we are doing an interview or hanging out - the first baptism is we're listening to the radio and a Nirvana song comes on and people always want to know, Do they turn it off? Do they pretend its not happening? I just start singing and get it over with. I like the songs. I like the song about my girl thingy; i like "Heart Shaped Box".
SPIN: Insome ways, you're actively involved in Kurts legacy. You got alot of nuts for the way you handled the nirvana box set.
CLOVE: people are always saying, "how dare she? how dare she?" Because he was my husband. Because the other guys want to re write history. Because they didnt even like him. I cant deal with it. They wanted to call the box set Sappy!
SPIN: Now that Nirvana and alot of the other bands that defined the early nineties are no longer around, where does that leave alternative music?
CLOVE: ten years ago it was a pretty even playing field in terms of rock n roll. But now Weezer, Velvet Revolver, me, we're like a niche market compared to whats on the charts, and whats on the charts is all black bought by all white. It freaks me out. I've been asked to write with Andre 3000. I could write with Eve right now. But what would i do? Teach them the three punk chords? I mean, i really like Eve. She kept putting out my cigarettes and making sure my bra wasnt showing at the Barbershop 2 premiere. If i was black and a rapper, I'd be Eve. I'm a bigger badass than 50 cent - and the only gun i've ever held in my hand was the one my husband shot himself with.
SPIN: So what do you listen to these days?
CLOVE: The only thing thats really riled me up in the last ten years has been White Stripes. Thats the one band that got me competitive, and thats good. Thats where i go, "Oh! f**k you! I'm going to make mincemeat out of you and hand you your ass." I told Neil Strauss,"I have a magical girl thingy, and its only for Jack." which was a stupid thing to do, because i had to go to Japan with him in first class and sit there for 18 hours turning green while he shunned me. I like this new music. I dont think Snow Patrol is going to sell jillions but I don't give a nuts. I can turn on the radio right now and be inspired. We went through ten years of the limp bizkit thing, and I don't know what to do. I have to be part of a community. I don't care if they're young or old, as long as they can wear crazy makeup and show their tits onstage. I'm 41, I cant show my tits onstage anymore. me on david lettermans desk? thats the last titty you get. the guy at wendys? that was the end of me and my tits.
SPIN: But exhibitionism has always been part of your appeal.
CLOVE: Sexual power was important to me then. its not as important to me now.
SPIN: Why is that?
CLOVE: Because im not very *friendly* personty and i dont have to prove myself so much. After Kurt died, for about five years, i would f**k anybody that was A list just to say i did. i care about myself a little bit more now.
SPIN: Would you say that you have embraced celebrity?
CLOVE: I love to hang with the f**king a listers, its fun. You gotta be able to change worlds. The rockers have been a little meaner to me in the last year, and the a listers havent been mean to me at all. I get invited to every party. You know, i am cool. i just am. i have to get back to believeing that and not have voices in my head - and im doing that sober, which is a little rough. But i want the toys, i like free gowns. I like going to elton johns house. Im pretty conflicted.
SPIN: You have had a career as both an actress and a musician. What's the difference?
CLOVE: Being a rock star is like being a cult leader - you really have to be in your own religion. Movie stars are supposed to be healthy. They're kept happy and nutritionally together. In rock stardom there is an absolute economic upside to self - destruction. What makes the most money for this business? Dead rock stars.
SPIN: You published Kurt's journals. Do you have any other plans to preserve his legacy?
CLOVE: No one will take Kurt's ashes, because they don't want the crowds. I was up in Seattle recently and drove by our old house on Lake Washington Boulevard. It's crazy. It looks like Pere-Lachaise; it looks like Jim Morrisons grave. Syringes, bottles, tree carvings. Thats what kids do. But i dont want kurt in a bank vault somewhere. I want to be able to say:"I've laid you out somewhere, and people can come."
--written by Phoebe Reilly
Guess not.