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Post by lovestinksyeahyeah on Oct 8, 2004 21:00:33 GMT -5
hey just curious what you guys thought happened to her because i somehow think it was linked to courtney. i read about it in some books and it sounds suspicious. she was leaving Hole and went to move some stuff out of her apartment and ended up dead in her bathtub from a heroin overdose when she was clean from drugs for a year. by the way i somehow see a comparison with kurt's death. wasn't he on heroin also? that must be courtney's drug of choice. it's just strange and sad because kristen seemed very nice and was trying to escape courtney but ended dead instead. well just wondering what you guys think because i believe kurt was murdered and was linked to courtney but i also think courtney had something to do with kristen's death and we can't forget her too. kurt and her were good friends too.
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Post by HippieChild on Oct 8, 2004 21:28:23 GMT -5
I think her death is very suspicious. Kurt once said Kristin was a "beautiful soul and a f**king talented musician." He added that he wished he could tell her but Courtney would freak.
Funny thing; Kurt had bought 2 one-way plane tickets and it was speculated that he was leaving town with his new girlfriend. Tom Grant said that Courtney was obsessed with finding out who she was. Kristin was reported to be distraught over Kurts death and suddenly she's dead too. Makes me wonder if Kristin was the "other woman."
Food for thought.
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Post by rocket on Oct 9, 2004 8:16:38 GMT -5
Fact: Kristen took a bath, decided to shoot up in the bath and overdosed. Plain and simple.
RIP Kristen
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Post by kobob on Oct 9, 2004 8:18:48 GMT -5
You know this because...?
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Post by rocket on Oct 9, 2004 8:35:39 GMT -5
You know this because...? because.. I'm level headed.
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Post by kobob on Oct 9, 2004 8:39:38 GMT -5
If you say so.
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Post by lovestinksyeahyeah on Oct 9, 2004 12:15:08 GMT -5
haha kobob you rock. rocket you don't. you obviously don't believe in murder. or is it because your psychotic courtney had something to do with it. kristen was alot better than courtney.
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Post by rocket on Oct 9, 2004 12:50:54 GMT -5
haha kobob you rock. rocket you don't. you obviously don't believe in murder. or is it because your psychotic courtney had something to do with it. kristen was alot better than courtney. 1.I didn't compare kristen to courtney. 2. Of course I beleive in murder. Unfortantly it happens every day. 3. You've just given me a brilliant idea for my new name: rockin rocket. Thanks buddy.
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Post by itslikeatradeoff on Oct 9, 2004 13:03:26 GMT -5
Fact: Kristen took a bath, decided to shoot up in the bath and overdosed. Plain and simple. RIP Kristen Heroin in both of those deaths coindience as the book 'Loser The Sound Of Seattle' pointed out.Kristen was planning on leaving Courtney and the band Hole the U Haul truck was in front of her house when she was found as a matter of fact.Suck on that rocket.
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Post by HippieChild on Oct 9, 2004 14:09:27 GMT -5
Apparently the circumstances of her death are as follows;
She had her U-haul packed and was ready to leave early the next morning. That night she took a bath and Eric Erlandson came by. Later on, her roommate heard her snoring in the bathtub so he went to bed. The next morning the bathroom door was still locked and he had to break it in and found her dead in the tub of a heroin overdose.
Now here's where it gets murky; Courtney claims that she had to drag Eric away from Kristins body, yet she and Eric weren't there that morning when Kristins roommate broke in the door. Tom Grants theory is that Courtney supplied Eric with the heroin and he stopped by to see Kristin and give her a present of "one last hit." The heroin, which was also three times the lethal level, was purer than usual and Kristin died. Eric panicked and called Courtney and they cleaned up and left. Murder? Very possible. Eric may have been used as a patsy. This is all just theory but remember, Courtney and Kristin didn't get along. Courtney was heard telling Kristin "First you make eyes at my husband now your telling me how to sing? Do not f**k with me or you will live to regret it!"
Again it comes down to the question, was Kristin the "other woman"? It's obvious from Kurts remark about her being a "Talented musician and a beautiful soul" that there was an attraction between the two. When Kurt died, Kristin was distraught and determined to get away from Courtney. She never made it.
Murder or accident? You decide.
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Post by itslikeatradeoff on Oct 9, 2004 18:06:34 GMT -5
Rockets gonna give a smart alec response and follow up with the traditional "Keep em coming Rocket x"
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Post by missworld on Oct 17, 2004 5:45:19 GMT -5
okies, i have never red about this. i knew kristen had died of a heroin overdose, that was all. this is all very onteresting stuff. i'll read up on it and get back to you guys on it.
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Post by HippieChild on Oct 17, 2004 8:41:11 GMT -5
Okay Miss World, read on. I had to break it into two posts because it's pretty long:
THIS SECTION IS DEDICATED TO KRISTEN PFAFF
"She's a f**king talented musician, she's also a beautiful soul. I think she's so beautiful, but if I ever told her that, and Courtney found out, it would be hell." (Kurt talking about Kristen to Dylan Carlson, WKKC? p 149).
"Courtney's scary. If I take a hike, she'll make me look bad or do something to make my life miserable." (Kristen to a friend, WKKC? p 146).
"Don't f**k with her, just bite your tongue when Courtney does something stupid or insults you. That's what I do. Courtney has the power to make us a lot of cash." (Eric Erlandson to Kristen, WKKC? p 147).
"As long as she has three puppets who agree that she is the star, there are no problems." (Kristen on Courtney, WKKC? p 147).
"You f**k my guitar player, constantly make eyes at my husband and now you're telling me how to sing. Just don't f**k with me because you'll regret it forever." (Courtney to Kristen, WKKC? p 148).
"At first she's really nice to you to your face, but if you do something that she doesn't agree with, she'll do something behind your back to make you look really bad." (Kristen talking to her mother about Courtney, WKKC?)
"I care a lot about you but you're such a low life, Your whole life is a fake. Everything. The people you hang with, the drug dealers, Courtney...even your guitar playing. You're so good at fooling the crowd." (Kristen to Eric Erlandson).
Kristen Pfaff had used heroin, but she had been through rehab, she was clean and she was leaving Seattle and Hole and Courtney behind. This is exactly the same for Kurt. Both ended up dead, both had heroin/morphine in their systems at the time of death. Both of them had contact with people Courtney was close to, just before they died. Michael DeWitt and Eric Erlandson. DeWitt and Erlandson both had experience of drug use.
Kristen was genuinely upset over Kurt's death and she seemed to be scared about something. She was desperate to get away from Courtney. So was Kurt, he had had enough of being belittled, enough of having to censor his words and actions, enough of listening to Courtney going on about designers and mansions and luxury cars and money money money. Kurt wanted to get some quality back in his life, he was ready to ditch Courtney. Both of them died before they got the chance.
On June 15th 1994 Kristen was packed and ready to leave. She was joining up with her old band Janitor Joe. The truck was packed, her friend Paul Erickson was ready to drive her and her belongings far away from Courtney early the next day. Eric Erlandson paid Kristen a visit that evening at around 8pm he is the last known person to see Kristen alive. At 9am the following morning Paul Erickson let himself into Kristen's flat, he called her, there was no reply. He realised the bathroom door was locked, he called her again, again no reply. He broke the bathroom door down, Kristen was dead in the bath, heroin paraphernalia were on the floor. This is similar to the scene of the crime at Kurt's house. Erickson called 911. If the police and medical services arrived shortly thereafter, at what point did the following happen?
"I had to go over there and get Eric away from the body. Kristen had been his lover for a really long time. He'd already broken down bathroom door after bathroom door for her." (Courtney, Rolling Stone, December 15th 1994).
What kind of lock did the bathroom door have? If it was a key, where was the key? Was it in the door on the inside? Was it on the floor inside the bathroom? Was there an unlocked window in the bathroom? It is the same scenario as Kurt and the greenhouse. The police wanted us to believe Kurt had locked himself in there and that no-one else could have gained access. Thanks to Tom Grant, we know that is not the case. How thorough were the Seattle police in investigating Kristen's apartment? Probably as thorough as they were at the scene of the greenhouse. I have no faith in the Seattle Police Department. We will probably never know if there was a key and where it was, or if there was an unlocked window.
If there is the slightest chance Courtney and Erlandson were both in the bathroom before Erickson discovered Kristen, then the Seattle Police have a duty to investigate this. Even if this occurred after Erickson found Kristen, there is still the fact that Erlandson was possibly the last person to see Kristen alive to consider.
How difficult would it be for Courtney to suggest to Erlandson that he give Kristen a going away present, one last hit before she started her new life? Courtney could have supplied heroin of a higher purity than normal, Erlandson might just have been giving her normal smack for all he knew, he may not have realised what was happening. Because Kristen, (and Kurt), were clean, their systems could not tolerate this purity, they lapsed into unconsciousness and one died in the bath, and the other was shot. Because of the connection between Courtney and both Erlandson and DeWitt, and the proximity of them to Kristen and Kurt, the possibility that Courtney was involved must be seriously investigated Erlandson could have visited Kristen with his "gift", he talked her into it, she died. Erlandson freaked out and called Courtney, she went over to calm Eric, and they left the premises. When a dead person is found, and that person is unfortunate enough to have been involved with Courtney Love, and that person was on the verge of disentangling themselves from her, then Courtney must be investigated.
Here are a couple of news reports on Kristen's death, from The Seattle Times, these reports show just how lightly the Seattle Police Department treated her death:
The Seattle Times 18th June 1994: Seattle police say they will not step up enforcement efforts against heroin, despite another death apparently linked to the drug in the city's rock music scene.
Kristen Pfaff, the 27- year old bass player for the band Hole, was found dead Thursday morning in a bathtub in a Capitol Hill apartment. A syringe and apparent drug paraphernalia were found in a cosmetic bag next to the tub.
An autopsy yesterday failed to establish a cause of death, and lab and toxicology tests were ordered. Pfaff's death followed that of Kurt Cobain, lead singer of Nirvana, who committed suicide in early April. A heroin shooting kit was found next to his body in the Lake Washington home where he lived with his wife, Courtney Love. Love is Hole's lead singer.....
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Post by HippieChild on Oct 17, 2004 8:45:51 GMT -5
Here's the rest. I had to cut some of it out because it was over 10,000 characters but it can be read in it's entirety on In Defense Of Kurt Cobain, Frances Barnetts Web Page:
"I don't think heroin is any more accessible in Seattle than any other city\', said Capt. Dan Bryant of the Seattle Polices Department's narcotics section. ?Heroin is not a Seattle problem; it's a national problem." Bryant said Pfaff's case is not being investigated by the narcotics division because it doesn't review drug overdoses, which is how Seattle police have categorised the case.
Most investigations focus on known drug dealers, he said, although police will not try to determine who sold Pfaff the heroin, if in fact she bought it in Seattle. Pfaff had been travelling in Europe for five weeks and returned to Seattle last weekend.
"Unless we had someone who knew her and was willing to testify and work with us, we really have nowhere to go." He said, noting the difficulty in developing drug cases.
"We won't treat this case differently than any other case just because it's someone with notoriety" Bryant added.
"We did attempt to locate the source of drugs in the Cobain case but were unable to come up with any meaningful evidence. That may well be true in this case too."
Cobain is believed to have purchased heroin from dealers in Capitol Hill apartment buildings not far from the apartment where Pfaff died.
At what point did they rule that it was a self inflicted drug overdose, and rule out foul play? Does this mean that anyone who is found dead and who has drugs in their system is automatically ruled as a drug overdose and thereby does not warrant an investigation? That means that anyone could be murdered, and as long as drugs were involved the police could use the argument that as a drug overdose they would not investigate. The Narcotics department weren't investigating Kristen's death, and nowhere in this paper does it say that the homicide department were investigating it either. Kristen's friends were shocked at her death, they said she was off drugs (Like Kurt's friends said he wasn't suicidal and were shocked when he died.)
If the police followed Courtney's leads, and found nothing, why didn't they become suspicious as to the reasons? The heroin had to have come from somewhere, they were being given what turned out to be false leads from Courtney. Why didn't they suspect Courtney was lying?
The Seattle Times Friday June 17th 1994: ...."We are greatly saddened to learn of Kristen Pfaff's death and extend our sympathy to her family, friends and other members of Hole," Rosenblatt (President of Geffen and DGC Records) said in a statement.
Pfaff's father, Norman Pfaff of Denver, said according to her friends Kristen had not recently been involved with drugs. "It's my understanding at the present time my daughter was not using drugs," He said.
That sentiment was echoed by the bands drummer, Patty Schemel, who said she didn't think Pfaff had used drugs since being in treatment last winter.
"It was an accident." She said. "She loved life and this shouldn't have happened. She was an amazing musician and a very beautiful person.
Pfaff's father said he was told his daughter took a bath about 9pm Wednesday night and when her friend, Paul Erickson, a member of the group Hammerhead, checked on her, he thought he heard her snoring. "It was common for her to fall asleep in the bathtub," Pfaff said.
Erickson didn't think anything about it and went to bed. About 9.30am yesterday, Erickson forced open the bathroom door, and the singer was dead, her father said.
He said Eric Erlandson, another member of Hole, also had been at the apartment Wednesday night. Both said there was nothing in Kristen Pfaff's mood to indicate any problem.
...In the days after Cobain's death, Love publicly denounced the drug trade there, saying Seattle police were not doing enough to stem the availability of heroin. She cited drug sales in specific apartment buildings, not far from the apartment where Pfaff died.
Seattle police persued some of those leads, but no arrests were made in Cobain's death. A heroin shooting kit was found next to his body.
...Hole had signed with a major record label, but Pfaff did not "like all the trappings," said her father. "She thought it was a little out of control."
While the recent Hole tour was put on hold, Pfaff toured again with Janitor Joe and had returned to Seattle just two days ago, her father said.
He described his daughter as "bright, personable, wonderful...very, very talented, smart, and she always seemed to be in control of her circumstances. Last night she wasn't," he said.
If Kristen wasn't in control, who was?
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Post by itslikeatradeoff on Oct 18, 2004 18:58:04 GMT -5
Well thought out Im thinking that missworld doesnt have any decent commback to this but she always has COURTNEY RULES and COURTNEY IS A GODDESS to back her up.
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