do you think theres any other 'suspects'

[Danielle]

I'm just wondering if the people who believe Kurt was mudered have bothered to point the finger at anyone besides Courtney Love? Or is Courtney the only 'suspect' in this 'crime'. [those words are used sparingly] I don't believe Kurt was mudered but I'm just wondering if any of you can come up with another person who may have had a motive to kill Kurt besides his wife?

[NeitherSide]

Here's my list. At least one of these were involved with the murder.

1. Michael "Cali" DeWitt
2. Eric Erlandson
3. Dylan Carlson

[HippieChild]

I don't think Dylan did it but I think he knows something that he's not saying. He was Kurt's best friend; what motive would he have to kill him? Tom Grant states that when Dylan heard the news that Kurt was dead he "showed no reaction as if he already knew he was dead." Furthermore, Courtney told him to check the greenhouse, but he didn't. I wonder what transpired? He stated to Nick Broomfield that if he thought Courtney or anyone had killed Kurt then he'd kill them; they'd be dead. It makes me wonder if he'd follow through with that.

Cali I'm suspicious of because he's "Courtney's boy." He was also conveniently not around when Kurt was discovered and conducted his police interview over the phone, which is highly unusual; in fact it's unheard of. WTF?? He avoided Tom Grant like the plague, despite Courtney's elaborate promises and refused a lie detector test, which is his right, considering Tom isn't a law enforcement man, but if he's innocent, why the refusal?? Everytime Tom got close to Cali, he was suddenly shipped to rehab by Courtney. Hmmm.....

I haven't decided about Eric yet. I think in Kristin's death he may have been used as a patsy but didn't know he was delivering a "hot-shot." I don't know what his relationship was with Kurt, nor do I know what his motive would be, if any. Can I ask why you suspect Eric?

[Danielle]

NeitherSide said:

Here's my list. At least one of these were involved with the murder.

1. Michael "Cali" DeWitt
2. Eric Erlandson
3. Dylan Carlson

I'm pretty sure Kurt killed himself but even if it was murder I'm unwilling to except that Eric had anything to do with it. Kurt and Eric were best friends and were going to start a band together. I also can't believe that the good natured, calm Eric would kill his girlfriend Kristen.

[HippieChild]

I'm pretty sure Kurt killed himself but even if it was murder I'm unwilling to except that Eric had anything to do with it. Kurt and Eric were best friends and were going to start a band together. I also can't believe that the good natured, calm Eric would kill his girlfriend Kristen.

Where the hell do you come up with this information? They were not best friends and were not going to start a band together. Eric was firmly dedicated to Hole, which was starting the height of it's success and as far as I know he had no intention of going anywhere else. Kurt was good friends with Cali, encouraged to be so by Courtney and told Rollingstone Magazine "I totally look forward to seeing him everyday." and he planned to work with MICHAEL STIPE from REM, not Eric.

Not for nothing, Danielle. Your nice and all but let me just say AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! Half truths, rumors and fabrications!! Nowhere in any of my research did I hear of Kurt and Eric being best friends. Maybe they were on good terms with each other, even friendly terms, but best friends and planning to start a band together? Post your source, please. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think so!

[Danielle]

Actually you're the one that's lying Hippiechild LEARN YOUR FACTS. In late 1993 Kurt Cobain came out in the media and talked about no longer being in Nirvana and talked about starting a band with Eric Erlandson or possibly doing a Johnny Cash and having a solo career. [In fact he spoke about that in his very last interview that recently saw the light of day] It's been written in many Nirvana biographies since. It was in the book The legend of Kurt Cobain. Even Pat Smear has talked about 4 track recordings between Kurt, Pat and Eric. In fact Kurt often jammed with Eric sometimes in his side project 'Hello Kitty' that he did with Courtney and Patty. They never releasd anthing but they recorded some songs and sent them out to the right people, Kim and Thurstan, Calvin Johnson,Kathleen Hanna. There catchcry was 'We want a lemonade nation and we want it now'. It was Kurt, Courtney and Patty Schemel and it's believed Eric helped too.It was joke, a bit of fun. If you don't believe me that's your bad luck but I know I'm telling the truth.


Oh and if you think I'm lying than why is Pat Smear talking about sessions he, Kurt and ERIC ERLANDSON did?

Taken from an interview with Pat Smear.

NFC: There's been much talk about the sessions at Cobain's residence in March 1994 with you, Kurt and Eric [Erlandson, then of Hole]. What can you tell us about this?

Pat Smear: There was some jamming and some 4-tracks made. Kurt played drums and sang, Eric played bass and I played guitar.

The below is from this webpage

translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://mitglied.lycos.de/RaFuchs/musik/nirvana/song/song11.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlemonade%2Bnation%2BKurt%2BCobain%2BEric%2BErlandson%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG


Hello Kitty (Courtney Love/Kurt Cobain/Patty bolster) is one of 3 (or more?) Pieces of a 4-Spur-Demos the fact that Kurt, Courtney and Patty bolster (of GETS) under the alias NIGHTY NITE (allegedly 2 sisters from Marysville, Dottie and Clara, 17 and 16 years old, with the battle call "incoming goods want A lemonade nation revolution and incoming goods want it now!") At the beginning of of 1993 took up, in order to parodieren the Independent Riot Grrrl LoFi sound announced at that time. Probably nobody has to ears gotten... except the auserkorenen victims under the music journalists and otherwise usual suspecting (the Fanzine MAXIMUM ROCK'N'ROLL, Kim Gordon and Thurston of moorlands (both of SONIC YOUTH), BIKINI KILL, FUGAZI, Calvin Johnson (k-record), Slim Moon (?), Huge Buzz (?))

Excuse the translation.

[HippieChild]

I'm not lying, I'm telling the facts as I know them. I've never heard that and if it's true then I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. But don't you dare call me a liar. I wasn't calling you one, I was saying you were relying on half-truths and rumors. I'll research this article you posted and if it's true, I'll admit it.

[NeitherSide]

Kurt once said that he did not want to do any music anymore, except when it was with Michael Stipe (he said this somewhere in March 1994). When he disappeared, Courtney asked Tom Grant to check with Michael if Kurt was there. Michael dedicated a song for Kurt (Let Me In, Monster, 1994). If anyone was the best friend of Kurt, at that time, it would've been Michael.

I know that Kurt and Courtney, together with Eric Erlandson where jamming and did home recordings but there were hardly any plans to "start a band".

I suspect Erlandson because he was sent to 171, Lake Washington Blvd even before Dylan and Tom (on the 5th, supposedly the day Kurt died), he supposedly searched the place with Cali but didn't find Kurt, who could've already been dead, or for all that matters, they should've found him or "caught him in the act".

In fact, why didn't *anybody* check the greenhouse? Kurt was known to retreat there when he wanted to write lyrics. Cali and Erlandson didn't find him. Dylan was told by Courtney to check it but didn't mention it to Tom Grant, and later claimed he didn't knew of it's existance...

[HippieChild]

umm....I checked it and it looks to me like they were jamming, not starting a band. The webpage you refered me to says "Guest Appearances with Nirvana." Nothing about starting a new band. In no way does it support your claim that Eric and Kurt were best friends and were starting a band together. They were jamming; period. Just because they were playing together doesn't mean they were forming a new band, as you claim.

A Bureaucratic the Irish For Revenge (Earth) : a two-piece piece (also under the title "Ouroboros Is Broken" admits - actually this is however a further Song of the same plate, with which Kurt does not along-play however) that volume EARTH, on which Kurt guitar plays and walks. The Studioaufnahme, developed October 1989 in the Smegma of studios in Seattle, is available on the EP "extra Capsular extraction" from EARTH on Sub Pop, publishes October 1991. EARTH consists of Dave Harwell (bass) and Dylan Carlson (guitar), the man, who procured Kurt the shotgun to the suicide.

Ain't It A Shame (Huddie Ledbetter?) : Coverversion of a Songs of LEADBELLY, taken up in August 1989 of Kurt on the occasion of a session with its friend Mark of Lanegan (of the SCREAMING TREES), which here however not along-sings, together with Krist and Marks of Pickerel (likewise SCREAMING TREES). The Song should appear original together with a Coverversion of "Where Did You Sleep load Night" as single under the name THE JURY (Kurt struck the name LITHIUM forwards), found however no favour with Sub Pop.
Actually Kurt wanted to only along-play with this project and to waive its Songs for NIRVANA, but then this complaining Blues was to have developed nevertheless together (thus nevertheless no Coverversion?). "Ain't It A Shame" will so far not remain in such a way published and possibly. According to Michael Azerrad ("Come As You Are"author) should be the Song Kurts largest singing achievement, while Jack Endino calls the admission ridiculous and the Song as Wegwerfstueck in the traditional style.

Annum (Buzz Osborne/Dale Nixon) is a piece of the "King Buzzo" Maxi of the MELVINS, which King Buzzo probably 1992 in the Laundry Room Recording studio to Seattle/Washington as well as Dave Grohl (here under the alias the Dale Nixon arises and beside schlagzeug also bass and guitar plays, as well as sings) wrote, took up and produced.

Anywhere But Here (Kurt Cobain/Courtney Love?) (also admits as "Determined") became alleged to 22.1.1993 by Craig Montgomery in the Ariola Ltda. BMG studio taken up to Rio De Janeiro, from whom also "Gallons OF Rubbing Alco-get flow Through The Strip" comes. To hear also Kristen Pfaff and Patty bolster (bass and schlagzeug, both of GET) should be on the admission after general assumption beside Kurt and Courtney. (there is also the theory that "Anywhere But Here" is identical to that supposed 1991 "" Song developed in ' D '" ' ".)
"Anywhere But Here" could have been a tidy Song - contrary to "Closing time" - if would not have turned out that the admission circulating in the InterNet is a falsification.

Asking For It (Courtney Love/Eric Erlandson/Kristen Pfaff/Patty bolster) : A piece of GETS, taken up in September 1993 in the Triclops of studios, Atlanta/Georgia of Paul Q. Kolderie and Sean Slade during the sessions for "Live Through This" (other sources say, it act around to demo of at the beginning of a 1994).
Different versions of "Asking For It" to find (on Bootlegs also under "Ask For It") obviously circulate, on those beside Courtney, Eric Erlandson (guitar), Kristen Pfaff (bass) and Patty bolster (schlagzeug) times more quietly, times loud Kurts singing in the background to hear are (alleged it is to play also guitar on the admission, which was out-mixed however later. Perhaps it concerns thereby in addition, only rumors of the trailers of the widow burn...). The admission which can be heard on the "Outcesticide V/Disintegration" Bootleg sounds anyhow like a falsification, since Kurts singing in the comparison to the remainder of the admission sounds much too clear and loud, does not rush and falls out of the Stereo panorama of the Mixes.


Bikini Twilight (Go team) is a piece that volume GO TEAM, consisting of Tamra ear mouth (singing), Kelvin Johnson and Donna digs (guitars), Louise Olson (bass) and Tobi Vale (schlagzeug and at that time Kurts friend) together with Kurt at the guitar. "bikini Twilight" was taken up together with "Scratch It Out", where Kurt likewise plays guitar, in the spring 1989 to olympia/Washington (possibly with K record) and published in July as single.

Buddies Aren't Butts (Simon fair Timony/Don Fleming) is a Song of the STINKY PUFFS. Consisted on the occasion of the appearance to 12.7.1994 with the "Yoyo A Go Go" Festival in olympia/Washington of Eric Able and Irish Republican Army Kaplan at the guitars, Krist Novoselic at the bass, Dave Grohl and Sheenah fair at the schlagzeug, Jad fair at effects and Sheenahs and Jads the 10jaehrigen Sohn Simon fair Timony at the singing. To hear there is the piece on the "The super Stinky Puffs Band" EP.

Closing time (Kurt Cobain/Courtney Love?) (also Closing Soon "and" It's Closing Soon "admits as" Drunk in Rio ",") is an admission of 22.1.1993 from the Ariola Ltda. BMG studio taken up to Rio De Janeiro/Brasilien, of Craig Montgomery, from whatever "Gallons OF Rubbing Alco-get flow Through The Strip" and other demos come. On "Closing time", allegedly designated from Courtney Love to a record shop (in Rio?), probably also Kristen Pfaff and Patty bolster (bass and schlagzeug, both of GET) are to be heard beside Kurt and Courtney. Allegedly Courtney is to have given the English DJ John Peel a Tape of the piece.
To hear "Closing is time" on the "Outcesticide II/The Needle & The Damage Done" Bootleg and emerges there as harmless Sessiongeplaenkel. The piece nevertheless of GET often live, so also in their MTV "Unplugged" special played.

Communication BREAK down (Jimmy PAGE/John Paul Jones/John Bonham) (a Cover of LED ZEPPELIN) on the occasion of the "NIRVANA REUNION" to 29.8.1997 with the "Bumbershoot Festival" in Seattle/Washington one played of the FOO FIGHTERS (Dave and Pat Smear (guitars) and Taylor Hawkins (schlagzeug)) together with Krist at the bass, while the microphone for the Leadsaenger becomes an orphan remained (an unknown quantity sang from the background). Instead of sad the tendency is rather spassig...


continued next post.....

[HippieChild]

"demos for Michael Stipe" : Briefly before its suicide told Kurt that it a common project with Michael Stipe of the R.E.M. flat. Possibly Kurt for it has 1994 demos in March took up, but heard the photographs, if they exist at all, so far nobody...

Determine : In addition, over this piece nothing is well-known and perhaps gives it such a piece also not from NIRVANA, it could a Bootlegger name for "Anywhere But Here" be.

Down in The Dark (Mark of Lanegan/Mark Lanegan/Mike Johnson) is a piece of MARKS of LANEGANs solo album "The Winding Sheet", on which Kurt produces in the choir along (and also guitar to play is), taken up in December 1989 with Reciprocal Recordings to Seattle/Washington, from Jack Endino. "down in The Dark" is not to confound with GARY NUMANs "down in The park" that the FOO FIGHTERS covern.

Going blind (?) is alleged a Song of KISS, the NIRVANA together with the MELVINS (or MELVANA?) to have gecovert are. Asks oneself only where and when...

Grey Goose (Huddie Ledbetter) is not Traditional or a common composition of Kurt and Marks of Lanegan, but the Coverversion of a Songs of LEADBELLY. The piece was taken up in August 1989 under the name THE JURY (Kurt struck the name LITHIUM forwards) of Kurt and its friend Mark of Lanegan (of the SCREAMING TREES) together with Krist and Marks of Pickerel (likewise SCREAMING TREES). According to Dylan Carlson is "Grey Goose" (or also "Gray Goose") the best admission of THE JURY, but other sources announce that only the singing without instrument valley company on volume exists...

Hello Kitty (Courtney Love/Kurt Cobain/Patty bolster) is one of 3 (or more?) Pieces of a 4-Spur-Demos the fact that Kurt, Courtney and Patty bolster (of GETS) under the alias NIGHTY NITE (allegedly 2 sisters from Marysville, Dottie and Clara, 17 and 16 years old, with the battle call "incoming goods want A lemonade nation revolution and incoming goods want it now!") At the beginning of of 1993 took up, in order to parodieren the Independent Riot Grrrl LoFi sound announced at that time. Probably nobody has to ears gotten... except the auserkorenen victims under the music journalists and otherwise usual suspecting (the Fanzine MAXIMUM ROCK'N'ROLL, Kim Gordon and Thurston of moorlands (both of SONIC YOUTH), BIKINI KILL, FUGAZI, Calvin Johnson (k-record), Slim Moon (?), Huge Buzz (?))

High on The Hog (Tad) is a Song of TAD, under the wrong title "Alco-gets" on the "Outcesticide III/The finally Solution" Bootleg to find. Kurt sings actual with this admission with TAD of 26.11.1989 from the The Bloom in Mezzago/Italien, after the singer of TAD, had to kotzen Tad Doyle, and thus failed.

Hooch (Buzz Osborne/Lorax/Dale Crover) is a piece of the MELVINS that these produced together with Kurt at the end of 1992 in the Brilliant of studios and the Hyde Street of studios in San Francisco/Kalifornien, and which is to be found on the LP/CD "Houdini".

I at the Gross!/No You're emergency! (Simon fair Timony/Don Fleming) is a Song of the STINKY PUFFS. Consisted on the occasion of the appearance to 12.7.1994 with the "Yoyo A Go Go" Festival in olympia/Washington of Eric Able and Irish Republican Army Kaplan at the guitars, Krist Novoselic at the bass, Dave Grohl and Sheenah fair at the schlagzeug, Jad fair at effects and Sheenahs and Jads the 10jaehrigen Sohn Simon fair Timony at the singing. To hear there is the piece on the "The super Stinky Puffs Band" EP.

I Like Porn should be the title one the "Songs" by Brown Cow, which to 1986 with an appearance in the GESSCO resound in Olympia, WA, were improvised.

I'll Love You Anyway (Simon fair Timony/Don Fleming) is a Song of the STINKY PUFFS. Consisted on the occasion of the appearance to 12.7.1994 with the "Yoyo A Go Go" Festival in olympia/Washington of Eric Able and Irish Republican Army Kaplan at the guitars, Krist Novoselic at the bass, Dave Grohl and Sheenah fair at the schlagzeug, Jad fair at effects and Sheenahs and Jads the 10jaehrigen Sohn Simon fair Timony at the singing. To hear there is the piece on the "The super Stinky Puffs Band" EP.

Isabella (Buzz Osborne/Dale Nixon) is a piece of the "King Buzzo" Maxi of the MELVINS, which King Buzzo probably 1992 in the Laundry Room Recording studio to Seattle/Washington as well as Dave Grohl (here under the alias the Dale Nixon arises and beside schlagzeug also bass and guitar plays, as well as sings) wrote, took up and produced. The piece is not identical to "Possibilities" that also under the name "Isabella" is to be sometimes found

Know my facts? Know yours. I don't know how you surmised the "they were best friends and starting their own band" theory from reading this; they were jamming, not forming a new band. A lot of bands jam together it doesn't mean they're forming a new band. Where does it say Kurt and Eric were best friends? I didn't see that any where. In 1982, I think, Freddy Mercury and Queen did a duet with David Bowie called "Under Pressure." Does that mean they were forming a new band?

Unlike you, I'm not calling you a liar; just badly misinformed. You tell me to KNOW MY FACTS??? LOL, you first, honey.

[itslikeatradeoff]

Kurt and Eric best friends?No.Kurt and Eric starting a band together?No.

Could you SHARE the crack?!Not only are you stupid but your selfish too!

[HippieChild]

What I fail to understand is, if your so firm in your resolve that Kurt wasn't murdered, why ask about other possible suspects? Either he was murdered or he committed suicide. He may have been murdered by Courtney, or he may have been murdered by one of the other suspects neitherside names, or someone we don't suspect altogether. Can't have it both ways.

[Andrea]

Isn't possible that they all might have been involved? I don't have the book with me but there seemed to be a lot of flying back and forth from Seattle to LA. The mistaken man who they thought was Kurt ( April 5th?) taking a taxi to the airport was Cali who took a flight to LA - and wasn't Eric with Courtney when she staged her overdose? But then both had also been in Seattle to 'look' for Kurt. I've heard it speculated that Kurt probably died around April 2nd so it's possible that the others could have been trying to establish alibis in LA.

This is pure spec, but lets say if Kurt, who was sited as appearing 'happy or unsuicidal' had made up his mind to start a new life that might have possibly involved ending Nirvana (confirmed); ending his relationship with Courtney (confirmed); possibly severing all contact with his drug addict friends, and lets face it, Carlson, Courtney, Cali and Erlandson were all junkies. He hadn't visited his dealer on Capitol Hill. Perhaps he really wanted to clean up and start a new life without any of them. Could the other woman have been Kristen Pfaff, who was also clean? (Her death to me seems odder than Kurts). Furthermore, he was under no obligation to continue with his old life since I've heard it said that his legal contracts with Geffen had expired (Does anyone know if this is true?) so he could have easily walked away from it all... and then fought for Frances.

I find it hard to believe that he commited suicide because I don't believe that a suicidal person would initiate divorce proceedings with his wife a few weeks before; go to the trouble of wanting to change his will; make arrangements with his grandfather who he loved; only to kill himself shortly after. Why go to all the trouble?

[Danielle]

HippieChild said:

What I fail to understand is, if your so firm in your resolve that Kurt wasn't murdered, why ask about other possible suspects? Either he was murdered or he committed suicide. He may have been murdered by Courtney, or he may have been murdered by one of the other suspects neitherside names, or someone we don't suspect altogether. Can't have it both ways.

I am curious to see how much the people thought it through with this theory. Although I asked for other 'suspects' not who else people thought were invoved. Eric Erlandson had no motive to kill Kurt IF Kurt was murdred. OH and Hippiechild, while you've checked my link you really needed to read the bit of interview with Pat Smear I posted.

Taken from an interview with Pat Smear.

NFC: There's been much talk about the sessions at Cobain's residence in March 1994 with you, Kurt and Eric [Erlandson, then of Hole]. What can you tell us about this?

Pat Smear: There was some jamming and some 4-tracks made. Kurt played drums and sang, Eric played bass and I played guitar.

And to those who say Kurt and Eric couldn't be starting a band because it was only recordings. That how it works when you're famous and start bands. You can't just go down to your local pub and play so you record stuff. That's how it's been done by most famous people who start bands/side project.Regardless of Nirvana would've stayed around people can have side projects. Possibly what he doing with Eric was a side project.Oh and if Kurt just wanted to retire from music than why in his last interview ever did he claim he wanted to e like Johnny Cash, and in my opinion he was doing that in a way when he did unplugged. Kurt was indecisive at best but I doubt he would have given up his first love.

I think Eric and Kurt were good friends. They lived together for a while in Los Angeles with Courtney and they only left when they were getting married. Also while Kurt was in rehab when Frances was born the only person who came to see him was Eric Erlandson.

Besides, IF Eric killed Kurt for Courtney. You would expect that Courtney would feel overwelming trust in Eric. That isn't the case. Eric and Courtney haven't spoken since Hole broke up. They have nothing to do with one another at all. [But I'm sure you'll find some murderous visionj of that].

Hippiechild, with respect because I know I was out of line calling you names like that judging by the above post you don't know who you think killed Kurt. I'll let you know one thing if there is no suspect there is no murder case.

[Danielle]

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